Siemens Level 3 zoning

[Tom]

For now at least, previous posts on the subject remain in the "Any Topic" thread. --tg

[Unregistered]

This Thursday, April 29th at 8 P.M. is the Finance Committee Public Hearing. It is your opportunity to have a say on zoning.

Article 24 will allow biotech Level 1 and 2 as a Matter of Right on any land zoned LImited Manufacturing, Industrial, and Highway Business throughout Walpole.

Article 25 will create an overlay district at Siemens to allow Levels 1 and 2 as a matter of right, with a special permit for Level 3, and allow biotechnology facility, medical or dental laboratories, medical equipment and supplies manufacturing, pharmaceutical and medicine manufacturing.

[Unregistered]

It is my understanding that Town Meeting article 25 would allow a 19 acre piece of residential zoned land owned by Siemens and the existing property the Siemens company is located on that fronts on Coney Street to become a so called Walpole Biotech Overlay District. The 19 acre property is to the rear of the Coney Street property and abuts Moosehill Road and has access to Moosehill Road.
Article 25 if passed would allow a biotechnology company on all of that land with Level 1 and 2 biotechnology allowed. Level 3 would require a special permit.
It is my understanding that Article 24 wuld ease zoning by-laws to allow biotechnology facilities in Walpole.
Think of the residents in the Moosehill Road area who thought they were abutting residential land. If this passes, who could be next?
Town Meeting starts Monday, May 3 at 7:30 p.m. at Walpole High School.
Town Meeting Members do your research before voting on Articles 24 and 25!

[Unregistered]

Biosafety level 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#Biosafety_level_3)
This level is applicable to clinical, diagnostic, teaching, research, or production facilities in which work is done with indigenous or exotic agents which may cause serious or potentially lethal disease after inhalation.[7] It includes various bacteria and viruses that can cause severe to fatal disease in humans, but for which vaccines or other treatment exist, such as Mycobacterium tuberculosis, Bacillus anthracis, West Nile virus, Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus, Eastern equine encephalitis virus, Hendra virus, SARS coronavirus, Salmonella typhi, Coxiella burnetii, Rift Valley fever virus, Rickettsia rickettsii, and yellow fever virus.

Laboratory personnel have specific training in handling pathogenic and potentially lethal agents, and are supervised by competent scientists who are experienced in working with these agents. This is considered a neutral or warm zone.

All procedures involving the manipulation of infectious materials are conducted within biological safety cabinets or other physical containment devices, or by personnel wearing appropriate personal protective clothing and equipment. The laboratory has special engineering and design features.

It is recognized, however, that some existing facilities may not have all the facility features recommended for Biosafety Level 3 (i.e., double-door access zone and sealed penetrations). In this circumstance, an acceptable level of safety for the conduct of routine procedures, (e.g., diagnostic procedures involving the propagation of an agent for identification, typing, susceptibility testing, etc.), may be achieved in a biosafety level 2 facility, providing

the filtered exhaust air from the laboratory room is discharged to the outdoors,
the ventilation to the laboratory is balanced to provide directional airflow into the room,
access to the laboratory is restricted when work is in progress, and
the recommended Standard Microbiological Practices, Special Practices, and Safety Equipment for Biosafety Level 3 are rigorously followed.

The decision to implement this modification of biosafety level 3 recommendations is made only by the laboratory director.

[Unregistered]

The buzz has always been that growing the commercial tax base will save homeowners from higher taxes. WRONG.

Four years ago Siemens expanded and paid over $1 million in permitting fees. The expansion contributed more tax revenue to the town's coffers.

Think for one minute. Were your property taxes lowered? Mine weren't and yours weren't either. My taxes are higher now than they were four years ago.

Want to know where the added tax revenue goes? To the salaries and health care budgets in the town's $80 million dollar plus budget.

So what is the School Committee's solution to the fact that they negotiate employee contracts that they knowingly cannot fund? Hotel and Meals taxes, Trash fees, and the attraction of any and all kinds of business regardless of the impacts.

This committee has to stop its unbridled pursuit of revenue in any form available and start to manage their costs. They are out of control. In their new quest for revenue, Level 3 agents at Siemens or anywhere else the town might think appropriate look good to them.

It's too bad there isn't a race for this committee.

[Unregistered]

Sam Obars blog compares the Genzyme situation to Siemens. Genzymes problem is not that they polluted the air,contaminated the groundwater or made any of their neighbors sick. Their problem is they made a defective product. Sam seems to imply that the manufacturing problems of one company in Cambridge somehow make a company in East Walpole dangerous to the surrounding community. I do not agree.

[Unregistered]

Sam Obars blog compares the Genzyme situation to Siemens. Genzymes problem is not that they polluted the air,contaminated the groundwater or made any of their neighbors sick. Their problem is they made a defective product. Sam seems to imply that the manufacturing problems of one company in Cambridge somehow make a company in East Walpole dangerous to the surrounding community. I do not agree.

A virus contaminated the facility. It demonstrates that accidents happen at the best of facilities even one in Walpole.. I think that is the pont of the comparison.

[Unregistered]

Sam Obars blog compares the Genzyme situation to Siemens. Genzymes problem is not that they polluted the air,contaminated the groundwater or made any of their neighbors sick. Their problem is they made a defective product. Sam seems to imply that the manufacturing problems of one company in Cambridge somehow make a company in East Walpole dangerous to the surrounding community. I do not agree.

You are correct. Mr. Obar missed this mark on this analysis. I am glad he is back and I told him so, but sometimes you have to take his article's with a fair degree of skepticism. In this article, there is no logical connection between the two companies. Genzyme has experienced problems, Siemans has not.

[Unregistered]

Sam Obars blog compares the Genzyme situation to Siemens. Genzymes problem is not that they polluted the air,contaminated the groundwater or made any of their neighbors sick. Their problem is they made a defective product. Sam seems to imply that the manufacturing problems of one company in Cambridge somehow make a company in East Walpole dangerous to the surrounding community. I do not agree.

I just read the same blog post and came away with the same opinion. The comparisons made between the two companies should not even be considered an argument. 1. They both have stellar track records. 2. Genzyme had some sort of virus that required a company wide decontamination, for which the cause was never determined. Siemens hasn't had anything like that. 3. They both do manufacturing. Nothing to really stop the presses over.

[Unregistered]

Bullying can take several forms and subjecting citizens to one-sided, fear tactics is being used again in Walpole to hinder business under the guise of protecting us from terrible horrors.

This time it’s Siemens Diagnostics (the town’s highest taxpayer) and its plan to develop biotech level 3 diagnostic tests. Opponents are conjuring up images of Frankenstein’s lab blaming Siemens for all manner of maladies – a person getting Lupus, an unexpected death, the birth of a disabled child (not uncommon with today’s medical advances) and the number of autistic children (even though Walpole’s autism rate is below the state level). Remember no research is done at Siemens/Walpole. It only manufactures tests.

Cambridge, which has more liberal, “tree hugging” brainy types/square foot than Walpole has, is the biotech capital. I never hear about Cambridge’s facilities causing birth defects, disease or lower property values. So, why Walpole? In my opinion, the answer is clear. The people who spearhead these emotional tactics are recognized for their anti-business stance. They not only keep new business from helping to broaden our tax bases, but now they are going after our existing business. This small but very vocal group is responsible for adding the extraordinarily short-sighted language to our zoning bylaws essentially saying, “If a type of business is not currently listed in our zoning use table, then it can never come to Walpole.” Given the advances in technology, do any of us really know what will be happening in 20 years? Well, it doesn’t matter. Not in our use table? Kiss locating in Walpole goodbye.

So, what is this all about? It’s definitely not about biotech level 3 or power plants – it’s about keeping business out of Walpole and the message is already being sent out. In my opinion, people who are more interested in being seen as activists than they are in the overall good of the majority are not much of an improvement over terrorists. They play on fear to achieve their ends and just hope that no one bothers to think independently. Call on your selectmen to be real leaders, stop responding to a loud minority that uses emotional rhetoric as a weapon. Our own Board of Health knows Walpole better than outsiders called in as experts. How long has it been since Walpole was called “rural?”

I think it’s time we had a referendum on issues affecting all of us who are being taxed out of Walpole. Everyone says they want business, but our anti-business types want to be the ones to decide what is and isn’t “clean” business.

No thank you, I want a say too. I sympathize with people who are reluctant to publicly stand against the anti-business minority, but let’s not give up on our right to express ourselves. Let’s do it at the polls. If we are not going to be allowed a reasoned and open discussion, then we can be heard in other ways.

Constance L. Johnson

Pemberton Street

Walpole
http://www.wickedlocal.com/walpole/news/opinions/letters/x57964594/Letter-to-the-editor-Make-yourself-heard-at-the-polls

I agree with Constance Johnson. Enough of the fear tactics on Siemens. Great letter Constance!

The Raven

[Unregistered]

I hope the Siemens article passes with flying colors. They are a great business, have been a great partner/resident to Walpole, and deserve the opportunity to grow and prosper in Walpole. Enough with the scare tactics ...

And next up I want to see the Bird Machine land/facility cleaned up, spic and span. I want to see a small corporate office park there complete with a park/recreational component for the town and neighborhood to enjoy.

Then I want to see the town sewer line expanded down through the stretch of Route 1A leading towards Norfolk. This will serve as the spark to get the current dirty businesses out of there because new developers with the vision and money to buy up the land to use it for a mixed use of commercial and residential.

I realize a lot of things have to happen for these dreams to come true ... but its what I would do if I had the magic wand to do so.

Now have at it folks ... the NIMBY's have just had their "bat signal" lit up alerting them to a pro-business post on Walpole Words ... fresh meat!

[Unregistered]

As an RTM I attended one of the 4 sessions held at Siemens to "clear the air " .
In my group of approx 17 RTM's many solid/tough questions were asked and answered to the near complete satisfaction of all present. Without names I can assure you the attendees were no slouches and arrived expecting no nonsense Q&A and got it. I left willing to vote YES!

[Sparky]

I hope the Siemens article passes with flying colors. They are a great business, have been a great partner/resident to Walpole, and deserve the opportunity to grow and prosper in Walpole. Enough with the scare tactics ...
Your reference to the article as "the Siemens article" is disturbing, and is one of the misconceptions about what is being voted upon. This is not a referendum on Siemens, or whether we want to keep them in town. This is more a referendum on whether we want to grease the skids for their competitors to come into town. Their competitors may not be such good businesses or good residents/partners with Walpole. The article allows Biotech Level 1 and 2 into town with no permission from Walpole required. That's an important element that is being overlooked in this debate.

[Unregistered]

Good for you, Sparky. You got it.

I am disappointed in my friend, The Raven, if he/she really wrote that note agreeing with Constance Johnson.
If so, The Raven must have fallen out of the nest up on the top of the old town hall and landed on her/his head.

Walpole Biotech Overlay District (Town Meeting article 25) means that the nineteen residential acres on Moosehill Road to the rear of Siemen's property on Coney Street would become an "overlay district" or an extension to the Siemen's business in East Walpole. The two parcels of land then would become Walpole Biotech Overlay District. How is that for turning residential property into a manufacturing use?! And by the way, it is not just residential land, that nineteen acre parcel is Residential A land.

Town Meeting article 24 would mean that biotech Level 1 and 2 would be allowed in Walpole with no permission from Walpole required. And then maybe some biotech company (companies) could expand into abutting residential land. If Article 25 is voted in, there would be a precedent set. How many other places could become WBOD - Walpole Biotech Overlay District?

Town Meeting Members - Vote No on articles 24 and 25

[Unregistered]

The Constance Johnson letter is the typical name calling with no basis in fact. The language in the bylaw that Johnson refers to has been in the bylaws for years. It has nothing to do with activists but the let's not let the truth get in the way mentality. Also noticed that the very few supporters I talk to know very little about the proposed zoning and haven't gone to any hearings on the matter. Again, why let the facts get in the way?

When the Raven can't land at Adams Farm or any residential property because overlay districts have allowed commercial uses, it will be too late. Fly away Raven. Fly away. You know not what you caw about..

[Unregistered]

There is only one Raven...I am a password protected species!

If we really want to protect the citizens of Walpole we must:
-prevent all tanker trucks from delivering gasoline to our filling stations (ever notice how they do it at NIGHT??)
-stop all overnight freight trains from passing through Walpole (another nefarious dark business: What the heck IS in those boxcars and tank cars??? And why under the cover of d-a-r-k-n-e-s-s!)
remove the power lines that pass through the town: (electromagnetic radiation)
dig up the huge gas line that passes through town

to the "tin-foil hat" crowd: I know you mean well, but its getting tiring. I am starting to think that the kind of business you consider "clean" may be located down on Wall Street (ie: Goldman Sachs).

The Raven

(ps: I am still your friend !)

More name calling from the birds of a feather flock together species. They found a new name and it's the tin foil hat crowd. I guess when you don't have any of the facts or even know what any of the concerns are, all you can do is come up with names.

[Unregistered]

Here's something to think about. The 500,000 square feet Siemenes building is larger than the first phase of Westwood Station at 435,000 square feet. That's a whole lot of biotech going on. We must be going for the largest biotech facility in the world award in a residential neighborhood.

[Sparky]

As an RTM I attended one of the 4 sessions held at Siemens to "clear the air " .
In my group of approx 17 RTM's many solid/tough questions were asked and answered to the near complete satisfaction of all present. Without names I can assure you the attendees were no slouches and arrived expecting no nonsense Q&A and got it. I left willing to vote YES!
What do you say to all of the families in the overlay district who will instantly lose 10% of their property value? That's approximately $35,000 each. Tough luck?

[deaconmike]

And your substantiation of 'losing 10%' is basd on ???

Mike

[Unregistered]

Here's something to think about. The 500,000 square feet Siemenes building is larger than the first phase of Westwood Station at 435,000 square feet. That's a whole lot of biotech going on. We must be going for the largest biotech facility in the world award in a residential neighborhood.

Yikes, how can seven firemen on the night shift have a chance of controlling any emergency in a facility this large?

[Unregistered]

The seven firemen you speak of have been handling things in that building for years, and will continue to do so regardless of how big it gets. The building also has a state of the art fire protection system in it. Though, if Siemens would like to foot the bill to increase the fire department staffing, they won't get an argument out of 20 Stone St. The East Walpole Station is close to Coney St. Open it up and staff it. Great idea. I'm glad you made this post.

[Unregistered]

Yikes, how can seven firemen on the night shift have a chance of controlling any emergency in a facility this large?

How,

sharon fire

norwood fire

canton fire

stoughton fire thats how, just like any big fire...and you call in the other 17 walpole firemen..

[Sparky]

And your substantiation of 'losing 10%' is based on ???

Mike
I follow real estate and market behavior carefully. Maybe it's 8%; maybe 12%. But you get the general idea.

If you were purchasing a house and had to choose between two virtually identical houses, and your real estate broker said "OK, Mike, would you prefer the house on the inside of the BioTechnology Overlay District, or the one outside of the BioTechnology Overlay District", which would you choose? Location, location, location.

[Unregistered]

As an RTM I am upset and insulted that Fin Com amended article 24 rendering it useless. Obviously they felt that TM
could not be trusted to vote the out come they desired. The BOS article should have been presented, discussed by TM and voted on by the RTM's. The "R" stands for REPRESENATIVE as in the peoples voice. Instead of laying the groundwork for a business friendly Walpole and an expanded tax base Town Meeting was relegated to arguing about raising revenues by taxing motel rooms and restaurant food. Special agendas have once again set Walpole back.

[Unregistered]

As an RTM I am upset and insulted that Fin Com amended article 24 rendering it useless. Obviously they felt that TM
could not be trusted to vote the out come they desired. The BOS article should have been presented, discussed by TM and voted on by the RTM's. The "R" stands for REPRESENATIVE as in the peoples voice. Instead of laying the groundwork for a business friendly Walpole and an expanded tax base Town Meeting was relegated to arguing about raising revenues by taxing motel rooms and restaurant food. Special agendas have once again set Walpole back.

Three selectmen, Timson, Sullivan, and Snuffer were at the Finance Committee public hearing and didn't object to the amendment. If you had been at the hearing you would have known.

[Unregistered]

As an RTM I am upset and insulted that Fin Com amended article 24 rendering it useless. Obviously they felt that TM
could not be trusted to vote the out come they desired. The BOS article should have been presented, discussed by TM and voted on by the RTM's. The "R" stands for REPRESENATIVE as in the peoples voice. Instead of laying the groundwork for a business friendly Walpole and an expanded tax base Town Meeting was relegated to arguing about raising revenues by taxing motel rooms and restaurant food. Special agendas have once again set Walpole back.
If you are going to speak as an RTM please identify yourself. I could say I am a RTM also.. heck I could say I am a selectman. Transparency is what we want

[Unregistered]

I was at the Finance hearing too. A lady on the committee asked the guy from Siemens if he had any problem with the new lnaguage and he said no. It didn't affect the company. Siemens was okay with the change.

[Unregistered]

As an RTM I am upset and insulted that Fin Com amended article 24 rendering it useless. Obviously they felt that TM
could not be trusted to vote the out come they desired. The BOS article should have been presented, discussed by TM and voted on by the RTM's. The "R" stands for REPRESENATIVE as in the peoples voice. Instead of laying the groundwork for a business friendly Walpole and an expanded tax base Town Meeting was relegated to arguing about raising revenues by taxing motel rooms and restaurant food. Special agendas have once again set Walpole back.

Perhaps are a new town meeting member and you are not aware that many of the articles voted on at town meeting have been ammended during the meeting and hearing process before town meeting votes on them. You might note that the warrant you recieved is not even the same as the one that is being voted at TM due to many changes.
Also did you attend the public hearing? Did you know the selectman were there when the changes happen and had no comment? Did you know when asked if they had any concerns with the changes Siemens said no?

It is a long process and changes occur, you should make yourself aware of them.

[Unregistered]

As an RTM I am upset and insulted that Fin Com amended article 24 rendering it useless. Obviously they felt that TM
could not be trusted to vote the out come they desired. The BOS article should have been presented, discussed by TM and voted on by the RTM's. The "R" stands for REPRESENATIVE as in the peoples voice. Instead of laying the groundwork for a business friendly Walpole and an expanded tax base Town Meeting was relegated to arguing about raising revenues by taxing motel rooms and restaurant food. Special agendas have once again set Walpole back.

I am so tired of the "buisness friendly Walpole"..... that from the same school crowd who advocated extra taxes on restaurants and hotels. The double speak from this crowd has become deafening!

How about being RESIDENT FRIENDLY! The Fin Com is the first board who actually invited and was open to public comment. The Selectmen certainly never made any real attempt to involve the public. If they were really interested they would have had a well publicized forum. Remember,... like the power plant,... oh but then again they seem to have no real intention of listening to the public. The Planning Board just kept insisting they are only there to judeg the "box" (ie building) that the business comes in, not the use or the terms.

Fin Com did listen to the public. CONGRATS FIN COM!! The way government is actually suppossed to work! They listenned to a packed room of residents, and found a middle ground. A compromise that everyone could live with. Then the BOS decided they needed to undo a compromise, because they have one agenda.... their own. And it doesn't include the public.

As far as town meeting debating and understanding the issues, well some maybe .... but when it comes to the school crowd we have nothing but a bunch of tin soldiers who vote the way they are told, regardless of the facts. The way they kept trying to stiffle debate on the budget and tax increases was evidence enough. The facts will never interfer with the "I need money an YOU have to pay!" mentality that this group is using to divide and destroy our community.

Thank you Fin Com for trying to find reason. Shame on you Board of Selectmen for leaving the people of the side of your private super highway tothe top! If you want Biotech, put it on Adam's Farm.

[Sparky]

I am so tired of the "buisness friendly Walpole"..... that from the same school crowd who advocated extra taxes on restaurants and hotels. The double speak from this crowd has become deafening!
...
As far as town meeting debating and understanding the issues, well some maybe .... but when it comes to the school crowd we have nothing but a bunch of tin soldiers who vote the way they are told, regardless of the facts. The way they kept trying to stiffle debate on the budget and tax increases was evidence enough. The facts will never interfer with the "I need money an YOU have to pay!" mentality that this group is using to divide and destroy our community.
...
I, for one, don't like gross generalizations like "the school crowd". What the heck does that mean? I have voted both for and against school overrides; am I in the "school crowd"? When you pigeon-hole people like that, you lose credibility with your argument, because you move the debate from facts and reason to one of "us versus them". What crowd do you belong to? Old? Yuppie? Newbie? Blue-collar? NO to everything? Townie? Please drop the labels. Most people in town vote items on their merit.

[Unregistered]

I, for one, don't like gross generalizations like "the school crowd". What the heck does that mean? I have voted both for and against school overrides; am I in the "school crowd"? When you pigeon-hole people like that, you lose credibility with your argument, because you move the debate from facts and reason to one of "us versus them". What crowd do you belong to? Old? Yuppie? Newbie? Blue-collar? NO to everything? Townie? Please drop the labels. Most people in town vote items on their merit.

Most people do vote items on their merit. The exception is the aptly named "school crowd". They really do vote as a block, merit or no merit. Sorry for the label. I will use no other as I do not see any other "group" that you mentioned voting as a mindless block, with no consideration for anything but their isolated agenda. The "school crowd" does anything to support school funding, with blind loyalty to the cause, consequences be damed. I am sorry if you find the label offensive. As I said, I will use no other labels. But in this instance, I feel it is warranted, and that the shoe truly does fit....

[Unregistered]

If the fincom was listening to the people than why not just vote No Action? Why was there a need to amend it so that the intent of the article was totally destroyed. The BOS didn't walk away from a compromise, they pulled back a useless article. Maybe after a long night of dicussion the selectmen and fincm members didn't realize the ramifications of the amendments to the article. I'd bet my bottom dollar that the person/s that suggested the changes knew what would happen. I really shouldn't be mad at fincom it's no their fault they got hoodwinked.

I am not one of the tin soldiers and I don't wear a tin hat. Some of you think I am the cowardly lion or the scarecrow (pre-brain of course). I just think the man or woman behind the curtain pulled a fast one.

I have a suggestion for new zoning by-laws: Any and all businesses are welcome as long as they are not sited over the aquifer.

[Unregistered]

If the fincom was listening to the people than why not just vote No Action? Why was there a need to amend it so that the intent of the article was totally destroyed. The BOS didn't walk away from a compromise, they pulled back a useless article. Maybe after a long night of dicussion the selectmen and fincm members didn't realize the ramifications of the amendments to the article. I'd bet my bottom dollar that the person/s that suggested the changes knew what would happen. I really shouldn't be mad at fincom it's no their fault they got hoodwinked.

I am not one of the tin soldiers and I don't wear a tin hat. Some of you think I am the cowardly lion or the scarecrow (pre-brain of course). I just think the man or woman behind the curtain pulled a fast one.

I have a suggestion for new zoning by-laws: Any and all businesses are welcome as long as they are not sited over the aquifer.

Real simple. Perhaps the Fin Com thought the article made sense with changes..... Not that hard to figure out.
Perhaps Fin Com had been reviewing it and thought that the change was an improvement.
The article would have allowed Siemens to have bio level 1 and 2 and not spread it all over town.

I really do not see why this is so difficult for some to understand.

[Unregistered]

This is one of the least thought out statements that I've heard in a while.
"I have a suggestion for new zoning by-laws: Any and all businesses are welcome as long as they are not sited over the aquifer". In my opinion, nothing should be sited over the aquifer, no way, no how. This is the problem that the zoning re-write committee worked to prevent from happening. This is why we have zoning, to keep out
unwanted, "dirty business", jeez, are you asleep at the wheel? Are you that hungry for tax dollars, I'm not. Keep in mind that the commercial tax rate is lower than resedential taxes. Also, Siemens got a 10 year tax break for their million dollar expansion and they'll probably get another tax break for additional expansion. In my opinion, Adams Farm should be rezoned for multiple uses, as it is virgin land and should be treated with respect. In case you don't know, Adams Farm is a 265 acre parcel and could be developed and green space could be maintained. I would be happy to sign a petetion to "sell the farm". Clean up the town forest first by stopping the abutters from dumping their yard debris in there.
I'd like to sign this as "Dog Rock", just keeping an eye on the friendly town.

[Unregistered]

In reply to #36 above, Commercial property is $16.47/$1000 - residential is $12.64/$1,000 - Let's keep fact straight

[Unregistered]

In reply to #36 above, Commercial property is $16.47/$1000 - residential is $12.64/$1,000 - Let's keep fact straight

Not after they get the TIF's .. lets keep that FACT straight

[Unregistered]

"Dog Rock" asks for forgiveness.
What I should have said is residential and commercial properties are taxed differently.
Residential is assessed at a higher rate than commercial properties. In other words if we compared a residential property to a commercial property having the same square footage and land, the commercial property would pay less tax. Tax assessment is the deciding factor.

[Unregistered]

I just drove by Siemens and that big old building is still there. When I drive by again in a few months from now, Siemens will still be there. Somehow I don't see this company packing up and moving to Germany or anywhere else.

[Unregistered]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/05/08/radioactive_water_reaches_nj_aquifer/

Glad this isn't our drinking water. And this facility was NOT built on top of the aquifer, just near by. Our selectmen need to start aknowledging the importance of our drinking water. The Fin Com did. I am tired of money hungry officials who want to pretend that the available land is not on the drinking water. This is all the more reason to develope Adams Farm. Business uses at Adams Farm will not impact our drinking water.

[Unregistered]

I think thats why we should clean up all the Brown fields and Junk yards that sit on top of our aqufier.... So the pollutants stop leaking into it.....To help decrease the cancer rates and autism rates...
Or should we just keep out anything new that will clean up the land, clean our drinking water?????
You NO people just dont make sense

[Unregistered]

I think thats why we should clean up all the Brown fields and Junk yards that sit on top of our aqufier.... So the pollutants stop leaking into it.....To help decrease the cancer rates and autism rates...
Or should we just keep out anything new that will clean up the land, clean our drinking water?????
You NO people just dont make sense

Putting dirty manufacturing on top of our drinking water is to perpetuate the foolish mistakes of years past. Offices, even retail. But dirty manufacturing with chemicals is NOT the way to "clean up" land. The only thing that makes no sense is you!

[Unregistered]

I think thats why we should clean up all the Brown fields and Junk yards that sit on top of our aqufier.... So the pollutants stop leaking into it.....To help decrease the cancer rates and autism rates...
Or should we just keep out anything new that will clean up the land, clean our drinking water?????
You NO people just dont make sense

If you can refer No people, then I can refer to YES people.

You YES people don't make any sense because you say YES to anything as long as it will bring in a dollar and a few cents. It makes sense to clean up contaminated land but the town has shown no serious interest in doing that. The Attorney General had to sue Allied. What had the town really done? The Superfund site on South Street has been sitting there for years. When is Covidien going to step up to the plate to clean up that site? What really doesn't make sense for the YES people is that they supposedly want the land cleaned up only to bring another polluting use to it.

This is really more a case of YES to money rather than regard for the aquifer. If there was such concern for the aquifer, then the YES people would not support projects and zoning that allow more polluting industries on it. And the YES people try to justify more bad land uses by saying that the industries are regulated. Lots of industries are heavily regulated and look at what happened with the oil spill in the Gulf. Just one example.

If there was such strong regard for the aquifer, then there would be even stronger support for keeping out bad land uses. The YES people have supported many bad land uses, so I don't think the aquifer is a concern at all for them.

[Unregistered]

Putting dirty manufacturing on top of our drinking water is to perpetuate the foolish mistakes of years past. Offices, even retail. But dirty manufacturing with chemicals is NOT the way to "clean up" land. The only thing that makes no sense is you!

They Dont DUMP chemicals out the back door!!!
EVRYTHING is regulated and counted by the Feds!!!
what is you problem???

[Unregistered]

If you can refer No people, then I can refer to YES people.

You YES people don't make any sense because you say YES to anything as long as it will bring in a dollar and a few cents. It makes sense to clean up contaminated land but the town has shown no serious interest in doing that. The Attorney General had to sue Allied. What had the town really done? The Superfund site on South Street has been sitting there for years. When is Covidien going to step up to the plate to clean up that site? What really doesn't make sense for the YES people is that they supposedly want the land cleaned up only to bring another polluting use to it.

This is really more a case of YES to money rather than regard for the aquifer. If there was such concern for the aquifer, then the YES people would not support projects and zoning that allow more polluting industries on it. And the YES people try to justify more bad land uses by saying that the industries are regulated. Lots of industries are heavily regulated and look at what happened with the oil spill in the Gulf. Just one example.

If there was such strong regard for the aquifer, then there would be even stronger support for keeping out bad land uses. The YES people have supported many bad land uses, so I don't think the aquifer is a concern at all for them.

Officials and residents who quote "how heavily regu;ated" theses industries are appear simplistic and Niave. It really is embarssing that an official would paark responsibility for our local water supply at the door of some agency in Washington. It is intentional "deaf, dumb, and blindness" with one aim.... "SHOW ME THE MONEY".

"Officials" who tout this hollow and rediculous reason to allow bad business are disingenuous or intellectually limited. You take your pick.

[Unregistered]

They Dont DUMP chemicals out the back door!!!
EVRYTHING is regulated and counted by the Feds!!!
what is you problem???

If you think everything is so heavily regulated, then take a look at how many times companies are fined by both the DEP and EPA for violations which include contamination, spills etc. Accidents happen nationwide and are routinely reported in the national media. One company in Walpole was fined by both the EPA and DEP a few years ago for a chemical spill. Just because the selectmedn say so, doesn't make it so anymore.

[Unregistered]

They Dont DUMP chemicals out the back door!!!
EVRYTHING is regulated and counted by the Feds!!!
what is you problem???

Hope you are headed to Loisiana for a beach vaca:) The Federal Government cannot get out of its own way. They have far bigger fish to fry than looking after the water supply in Walpole MA. Most of these industries are "self-reporting" anyways. Which means that if they do not report,... we do not know about it. The big spill at Fish Callahan chemical was self reported. No-one would have been any the wiser. And I am fairly certain theuy reported it well after the fact. In violation of those big bad "regulations".

[Unregistered]

They Dont DUMP chemicals out the back door!!!
EVRYTHING is regulated and counted by the Feds!!!
what is you problem???

So glad to know that the Feds are "counting" everything! Boy I am glad you pointed out what a technical operation it is. I can sleep much better now!

What pray tell are the Feds "counting"?

LOL

[Unregistered]

They Dont DUMP chemicals out the back door!!!
EVRYTHING is regulated and counted by the Feds!!!
what is you problem???

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100517/NEWS-US-ADHD-PESTICIDES/

Is this another one of those "Heavily Regulated Everythings"? Are the Feds "counting the pesticides too?" Years later we find out we have been poisoning our kids all along... nice. And our "School Supporters" want Biotech on the drinking water. And light bright up above is comfortable because "it is heavily regulated" and it is all "counted by the Feds".

Smart Folks.

[Unregistered]

We don't really need a HEALTH expert from Cambridge to talk about biotech because the real issue is ZONING.

What we need to do is accept the fact that we are NOT the City of Cambridge which has major teaching institutions, tremendous talent and expertise, and a large and well staffed health, police and fire department along with a hazmat team. Rather than coming up with more pie in the sky schemes about ALLOWING biotech everywhere and anywhere in Walpole, the boards should focus on our very own 500,000 square biotech facility and work on setting up the proper controls to manage what we already have. For all these years we have had no health regulations or other controls in place to monitor such a massive facility. Everyone has lost sight of how large 500,000 square feet is in the middle of a neighborhood.

And you can bet that the very supporters who want biotech zoning in SOMEONE ELSE'S neighborhood, would be the first to object to a 500,000 square foot faciliity in their OWN neighborhood.

Zoning is permanent. It runs with the land. So once the zoning is changed to allow biotech facilities, ANY company can set up shop. It's too late then to talk to experts who don't live here and have no vested interest in the welfare of our town. It's too late then to talk to the town boards, because once zoning allows biotech or anything else as a matter of right, there is NOTHING a board can do other than approve the plan.

So maybe a selectman who is pushing, pushing, pushing biotech should curb the enthusiasm.

[Unregistered]

I'm amazed at the abutters of Siemens lack of involvement. So far I have heard nothing about fighting Siemens expansion and rezoning of residential land. If I were an abutter I would have my neighborhood organized to fight this, instead of rolling over and playing dead. These people didn't want a mall expansion and take over of their neighborhood, but instead will accept the Siemens expansion. I've heard a lot of grumbling of their opposition but I've heard nothing of them being organized. Do they think this fight is futile or do they just not care to protect their neighborhood? What gives?

[Unregistered]

I also would say nothing. Then when it passes sell my land to them for 10 times what it's worth. Seimns will make the mall look like nothing.

[Unregistered]

I'm amazed at the abutters of Siemens lack of involvement. So far I have heard nothing about fighting Siemens expansion and rezoning of residential land. If I were an abutter I would have my neighborhood organized to fight this, instead of rolling over and playing dead. These people didn't want a mall expansion and take over of their neighborhood, but instead will accept the Siemens expansion. I've heard a lot of grumbling of their opposition but I've heard nothing of them being organized. Do they think this fight is futile or do they just not care to protect their neighborhood? What gives?

The new board of Mackenzie, Kraus, and Berry will jump start our opposition. Every statement they make will be challenged. Berry already committed to working with Siemens. Kraus had a fuzzy answer in the Times. We learned a lot in the spring. We will be better prepared for whatever comes up next.

[Unregistered]

"I also would say nothing. Then when it passes sell my land to them for 10 times what it's worth. Seimens will make the mall look like nothing. "
Siemens does not want to take your land, they have their own residential land that they want to rezone. Did the word "rezone" pass you by? If Seimens gets their residential land rezoned and they are allowed their expansion, then what is the benefit to the town? Presently they don't pay tax on that land, they have a reduced tax for the past expansion. All the town will get is a Level 3 bio-tech hazard next to a resedential area. It will also set a precedent for rezoning land across all areas of the town for development. Siemens is not an undesirable business as it it is, but Level 3 bio-tech is. Norfolk, Foxboro and Mansfield do not allow Level 3, why should we?

[Unregistered]

The new board of Mackenzie, Kraus, and Berry will jump start our opposition. Every statement they make will be challenged. Berry already committed to working with Siemens. Kraus had a fuzzy answer in the Times. We learned a lot in the spring. We will be better prepared for whatever comes up next.

Nice. That's progress. Nice stance. The town votes for a fresh perspective, and you're looking forward to opposing them already. Let's alienate the biggest commercial taxpayer in town. Let's show business that Walpole will not work with them without great difficulty.

You people kill me. If this was some residential builder asking for 400 units to be built that would increase poilce, fire, and educational needs oin this town. You wouldn't even blink. At least, not until the town had to ask for an override to pay for that increase in service. This is what Kraus and all the other people that have been calling for Walpole to become more desirable for business have been talking about.
Commercial taxpayers come to town, do thier business, and leave. They ask for very basic services, patronize local small businesses, and often create jobs. They don't ask for schools. The plow thier own property ( of pay a local guy to do it!) they don't ask for libraries, or extract cops and fire. They come to to town & they pay taxes.

What does Siemens cost the town of Walpole?

They want to expand. We're not talking about "weapons grade" materials here - which I have actually heard bandied about on this forum. They want to get more involved in the lucrative business of viral treatment & research. They won't be dumping Anthrax in the the aquefier. The days of W.R. Grace are behind us folks.

Tell you what. I want to go after Bird for that constant smell of tar. It must be a carcinogen. And how about all those fights happening at the 600 bars in the the town? Those places gotta go too.

Let's have a town of 50,000 homes with a bunch of craft stores, a mall that no one from out of town will use, and a brand new library staffed by no one.

Tell me where I am out of line.

[Unregistered]

"I also would say nothing. Then when it passes sell my land to them for 10 times what it's worth. Seimens will make the mall look like nothing. "
Siemens does not want to take your land, they have their own residential land that they want to rezone. Did the word "rezone" pass you by? If Seimens gets their residential land rezoned and they are allowed their expansion, then what is the benefit to the town? Presently they don't pay tax on that land, they have a reduced tax for the past expansion. All the town will get is a Level 3 bio-tech hazard next to a resedential area. It will also set a precedent for rezoning land across all areas of the town for development. Siemens is not an undesirable business as it it is, but Level 3 bio-tech is. Norfolk, Foxboro and Mansfield do not allow Level 3, why should we?

It won't set a precedent everywhere, only for the non "in" neighborhoods. This is Walpole, we have a double standard. Some folks count. Their homes, property values, and neighborhood character are protected. Other folks don't matter. Just watch. Everything bad will be confined to South Walpole or the mall area.

[Sparky]

Tell me where I am out of line.
You are ignoring the fact that rezoning that area is a total screw job to those homeowners in the area, of which I am NOT one. It doesn't matter how safe Siemens is; those homeowners take an immediate hit on their property value.

[Unregistered]

You are ignoring the fact that rezoning that area is a total screw job to those homeowners in the area, of which I am NOT one. It doesn't matter how safe Siemens is; those homeowners take an immediate hit on their property value.

THat is right Sparky, they don't want to get it. I also am not from that part of town and I see how unjust the deal.
If we let it happen there it can and will happen anywhere.

[Unregistered]

You are ignoring the fact that rezoning that area is a total screw job to those homeowners in the area, of which I am NOT one. It doesn't matter how safe Siemens is; those homeowners take an immediate hit on their property value.

And I would disagree that Siemens is "totally safe". Taco Bell is safe, the League School is safe, Walmart is safe though unsightly,.... but Siemens' massive collection of labs and production capacity utilizing incredible amounts of chemicals is really quite hard to classify as safe.

I would agree that expanding Siemens ontro residential land is a total screw job. And I do not live their either. There is nothing "new" and no "new direction" in bringing more bad business that decimates a particular neighborhood or threatens our drinking water. There is absolutely nothing new about that. It is the longest running battle in Walpole, with a new "staring industry" every 2 years.

That and that alone is why this town doesn't get anywhere. New faces with similar bad ideas are not progress. The residents can easily see the same old pile of junk headed their way, with a different set of window dressing. Please let Kraus and Berry be their own men. Following the bad lead of years past will only lead to more of the same.

[Unregistered]

I do not live near Siemens either. Those homeowners bought next to residential land and the selectmen want to use it for commercial purposes. The powers that be wouldn't dare pull this same stunt in another neighborhood. I'm with you Sparky.

[Unregistered]

THat is right Sparky, they don't want to get it. I also am not from that part of town and I see how unjust the deal.
If we let it happen there it can and will happen anywhere.

People need to start looknig at the town as one town. If people really want to rezone and enlarge bio hazard in East Walpole and add it to South Walpole they should think it through. The biggest tract of open land in town that is not located over the aquifer is... Adams farm. If people want to seel out other parts of town for a buck don't be surprised when people start eyeing Adams farm for commercial development.

[Unregistered]

The same people who have supported bad land uses are now on the BOS and the School Committee. How is that new and different? Neighborhood watch groups should spring up everywhere to closely follow what business these boards will try to support under the guise of "clean" and "green." I don't picture green for the color of grass. I picture green for the color of money. The first comment at the end of this Walpole Times story says it all.......

"This is a problem for our schools and our Town. We need to get the Bio-Tech operational, find another revenue source, or have an over-ride."

http://www.wickedlocal.com/walpole/highlight/x1057812996/Eleven-Walpole-school-employees-will-be-laid-off-to-balance-budget

It will become more and more apparent that the schools are trying to balance their budget on the backs of neighborhoods and never their own neighborhood.

[Unregistered]

It will become more and more apparent that the schools are trying to balance their budget on the backs of neighborhoods and never their own neighborhood.

Huh? The schools have their own neighborhood? I thought they were all over town?

Care to clarify?

[Unregistered]

Huh? The schools have their own neighborhood? I thought they were all over town?

Care to clarify?

School Board members should be willing to put the dirty business, that they quietly support, in their own backyards. I would like to see Nancy Gallivan look her neighbors in the eye and tell them that a power plant or another Siemens is no problem at Adam's Farm, because these industries are "heavily regulated". If the money is so worth it, have Nancy Gallivan put it in her own neighborhood. Bet she would not be such a popular "leader" then.

Clear enough?

[Unregistered]

You are ignoring the fact that rezoning that area is a total screw job to those homeowners in the area, of which I am NOT one. It doesn't matter how safe Siemens is; those homeowners take an immediate hit on their property value.

I am not ingnoring that fact. This is the reason we always back off. If it has to be done for the good of the overall town, then I'm sorry.

And before you say it "yes" I have been in this situation and I did give up a chunk of my property, (relatively speaking) to the town could rebuild an overpass abutting my lot. I have no doubt it decreased my PV, but it had to be done and there was no way it wasn't going to happen. You win some - you lose some.

[Unregistered]

I am not ingnoring that fact. This is the reason we always back off. If it has to be done for the good of the overall town, then I'm sorry.

And before you say it "yes" I have been in this situation and I did give up a chunk of my property, (relatively speaking) to the town could rebuild an overpass abutting my lot. I have no doubt it decreased my PV, but it had to be done and there was no way it wasn't going to happen. You win some - you lose some.

Re-building an overpass is not even close to having a chemical soup factory built next door to your home. The overpass was there, the residential land by Siemens is being re-zoned. Nice try, but not even in the same league.

[Unregistered]

Re-building an overpass is not even close to having a chemical soup factory built next door to your home. The overpass was there, the residential land by Siemens is being re-zoned. Nice try, but not even in the same league.

Everyone who had lived in the neighborhood since before that place was built has a legitimate gripe. And the town should pay them 5 to 1 on every dollar they lose off the original purchase price of their home.

Everyone who moved in since that place was built, Let the Buyer Beware. You bought a home near the plant of a bio-tech company. That bio-tech company now wants to carry out bio-tech business...what a shock!!!

[Sparky]

I am not ingnoring that fact. This is the reason we always back off. If it has to be done for the good of the overall town, then I'm sorry.

And before you say it "yes" I have been in this situation and I did give up a chunk of my property, (relatively speaking) to the town could rebuild an overpass abutting my lot. I have no doubt it decreased my PV, but it had to be done and there was no way it wasn't going to happen. You win some - you lose some.
No, we back off because the use is considered "dirty". But the difference here is that we are asking for a zoning change, which is not the case in previous businesses that the town has fought. This makes it particularly egregious. For example, I think it was totally reasonable for mall expansion near Route 1, because Route 1 is zoned commercial, and the abutters knew that when they bought their property. But to change the zoning to accommodate one organization is dangerous ground.

In the analogy of your situation, it would be the equivalent of the town rebuilding the abutting overpass, and then changing it from a roadway to a railway as part of the process.

[Unregistered]

Everyone who had lived in the neighborhood since before that place was built has a legitimate gripe. And the town should pay them 5 to 1 on every dollar they lose off the original purchase price of their home.

Everyone who moved in since that place was built, Let the Buyer Beware. You bought a home near the plant of a bio-tech company. That bio-tech company now wants to carry out bio-tech business...what a shock!!!

The issue being discsusssed is the EXPANSION ONTO RESIDENTIAL LAND. People bought next to 19 acres of residential land. With the understanding that Biotech is NOT ALLOWED on residential land. Shouldn't they all get the 5 to 1 deal as well???

By the way,...they are in a completely different business today than they were 10 years ago. Does that qualify for the 5 to 1 deal also?

[Unregistered]

No, we back off because the use is considered "dirty". But the difference here is that we are asking for a zoning change, which is not the case in previous businesses that the town has fought. This makes it particularly egregious. For example, I think it was totally reasonable for mall expansion near Route 1, because Route 1 is zoned commercial, and the abutters knew that when they bought their property. But to change the zoning to accommodate one organization is dangerous ground.

In the analogy of your situation, it would be the equivalent of the town rebuilding the abutting overpass, and then changing it from a roadway to a railway as part of the process.

Excellent post and analogy. Residents don't mind what they expect and what is reasonable. The Siemens expansion is not expected and not reasonable. ALL of the land use battles in this town have NOT bee what anyone would expect and they have NOT been resonable.

And before you respond with some "no to developemnt crowd" mumbo-jumbo, you MUST qualify your disagreement with what land battle WAS a resonable project that we should NOt have fought off.

[Unregistered]

No, we back off because the use is considered "dirty". But the difference here is that we are asking for a zoning change, which is not the case in previous businesses that the town has fought. This makes it particularly egregious. For example, I think it was totally reasonable for mall expansion near Route 1, because Route 1 is zoned commercial, and the abutters knew that when they bought their property. But to change the zoning to accommodate one organization is dangerous ground.

In the analogy of your situation, it would be the equivalent of the town rebuilding the abutting overpass, and then changing it from a roadway to a railway as part of the process.

Spot on Sparky. Spot on. Once commercial uses are allowed on residential land, then no one has peace of mind when buying property next to residential land. This maneuver is shortsighted and grossly unfair to the people who live by Siemens.