Walpole Woodworkers/40Bs

[Tom]

What to do? Comments on 40Bs in general?

[Unregistered]

Hopefully Walpole Woodworkers will be open to the idea of selling the proerty to the town for a combined facility (assuming it is feasible). This may cost a litte more in the short term but this town cannot afford another 40B travesty to further erode the budget of town, the burden on the schools, etc.

What we really need to do is start petitioning the state to re-examine that stupid 40B law which has proven to be nothing but a loophole for greedy developers who could care less about local town impacts and regulations.

[Unregistered]

You have hit the nail directly on the head.
How come other communities do not have to abide to 40B?

[Unregistered]

How does something like this get through the cracks? Will this help with taxes? OR add more of a burden to town with more children in the schools? How can this be stopped. What kind of traffic problems will arise from the location on busy East Street?

[Unregistered]

Can this be stopped? It does not seem to make any sense. Why would they not give the town the option to purchase the land for a DPW or Police/Fire if that could be an option. What about the USPS? 16 Acres should do?

[Unregistered]

Why would Walpole Woodworkers wait around for the town of Walpole to argure about an override to purchase their property when they have a buyer in hand? They have seen a town unwilling to invest in its long term well-being and acted in their best interest. And who can blame them?

By the way, other towns do have to abide by 40B laws. It is the law that is wrong, not its goal and not Walpole's handling of it.

All that being said, I do hope the town will approach WW and persuade them to give us a chance at the property.

[Unregistered]

single families COST more than they PAY

40B COST more than they PAY

WHO is PAYING for all these "SPECIAL" people ??

ME$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Unregistered]

With all of the money talk on the "override board", here we go again.... My head is spinning at the notion that another 40B is in the works. What can we do to stop this from happening??


Overworked, underpaid, and overtaxed citizen of Walpole

[Unregistered]

What would the USPS do with the land?? There are already 3 PO's in town you want to add a 4th?? You would be better off hoping that the USPS goes back to their idea of grabbing the old Ingersol Rand building on School St and move Central in there and hope the neighbors don't protest it again. As for WW not waiting on the town and all the redtape that goes on with overrides and such I don't blame them by the time every thing went through it would be years.

[Sparky]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Would not the Walpole Woodworkers have been more community-friendly by approaching the town prior to putting the property on the open market, knowing that the town is looking for such a piece of land?

Is their warehouse property on School Street also available?

[Unregistered]

Could we try asking them to remain in Walpole? With special perks? How about this:

We purchase a greater portion of the property off of East Street.

Turn it into playing fields.

Let Walpole Woodworkers maintain their existing showroom area (even let them enlarge it).

Give them a tax break...and naming rights to the field: Walpole Woodworkers Field.

In turn, we let them keep the name "Walpole" (chuckle chuckle)

Their corporate identity has always been centered around the notion that Walpole Woodworkers is located in a typical New England town about 20 miles southwest of Boston. How about it Walpole Woodworkers?

Concerned citizens: express your desires to the Corporate heads of Walpole Woodworkers..they may just reconsider.

If it becomes a huge apartment complex, they may as well call their corporation something else...because their actions will begin the end of small town Walpole.

(Sounds like a good article for Yankee Magazine, doesn't it?? "Walpole Woodworkers Leaves Walpole In The Lurch")

Raven

[Unregistered]

I agree with Sparky. WW should have done the right thing and approached the town first. The town where they have kept their business for years, where they have prospered for years. Just another greedy corporation looking out for the almighty buck? Probably. I doubt they even know about Walpole's troubles as of late and obviously they don't really care.

[had it]

An earlier poster asked about the tax rate. It's taxed commercial right now. If it becomes 40B the tax rate will drop. If it became USPS or town-owned, it would come off the tax rolls entirely. On the other hand, you could make the argument that town or USPS ownership won't increase the cost-burden on town services and the school budget like a 40B would. (and has)

This is one of the big reasons our budget is in trouble year after year. This town was once full of industrial rate tax parcels and they are disappearing. The irony is that many of the same people who have made a public out-cry about the town and school budgets and scream mismanagement, are the same ones who fight every proposal at industrial use or re-use.

[Unregistered]

I don't quite understand why Walpole Woodworkers would pack up and leave town unless there are some issues either with the Town or with the location. I occurs to me that there are 160 odd acres of land in south Walpole which is currently zoned commercial/industrial which they could possibly relocate to.

One thing is for certain, we had better smarten up about the way we use our land resources or we will end up with more 40B complexes or Age Qualified Villages. Look at what happened to the parcel of prime commercial land on Route 1 that was donated so graciously by the town to a non profit special needs school which pays no tax to the town and from which I don't believe we get any other benefit.

[Unregistered]

With Walpole asking the citizens to vote on a $3.9 million override where would the funds come from to purchase the Walpole Woodworkers site and then pay for new public buidings? I can assure you between the cost of the land and the cost of construction of the buildings there is not enough money in any budget. When was the last time a homeowner and/or a company made a charitable donation of land when there is debt on the property. Is that really a realistic expectation?

People's opinion of the Perserve may be valid but unfortunately the Town of Walpole should have worked with the developers rather than fight them through the permitting process. As a result the Perserve was approved with 50% of the units at 50% of the median income which unfortunately brings a certain demographic. To make matters worse 48 three bedroom units were approved. During the permitting process the Town of Walpole should have asked the developer to have only 25% of the units affordable at 80% of the median income. In addition, the town should have worked with the developer to eliminate all three bedroom units. Three bedroom units typically imply families with kids compared to one and two bedroom units.

If one looks at the proposed developers website they build high quality units. They have projects in Peabody and Marlboro. Look at www.apartmentratings.com and see what the responses are from tenants compared to Gatehouses projects in Walpole, Raynham and Franklin. There appears to be a vast difference as to the types of projects and the types of people who live there.

Like it or not 40B is a reality that every town that has not met their 10% affordability requirement. It was written in the paper that a 40R may be proposed. If the town elects to go the 40R route not only will it receive fairly significant money from the State it can work with the developer to permit a project that is more palatable than what was approved at the Preserve - i.e. no three bedroom units, 25% at 80% of median, etc. or roadblocks can be put up and get something less desireable.

In regards to the taxes that Walpole Woodworkers pays compared to what will be built. According to the assessors webpage, it appears that the parcels Walpole Woodworkers own they are being assessed at approximately $1.8 million which does not translate into alot of money. Conversely, the Preserve is assessed at $30.6 million. If the new project is assessed at roughly the same number it is an increase of almost $380,000 a year.

[Unregistered]

The Town of Walpole could have taken the 40B matter seriously years ago. Why didn't they? Because the "pot stirrers" shot down every attempt to build more affordable housing on our own. When grant money from state and federal sources dried up the "pot stirrers" made progress impossible. Now once again Walpole will pay the price for their campaigns of misinformation
40B will be forced upon us until we reach the 10% of our population the state demands. 40B is exempt from Walpole's own rules and regulations regarding building and site clean up. Watch and see what use the "pot stirrers" make of this new situation. I assure it will not be sincere.

[Unregistered]

Walpole Woodworkers is leaving to be close to their wood supply in Maine. The company chose to enter into a Purchase and Sales with a 40B developer. They did not have to do that. So the fact that another 40B is coming to Walpole is a result of their decision.

[Dave]

I love it. An override proponent no doubt. The line " they have seen a town unwilling to invest in its long term well-being and acted in their best interest".

That kills me.

What they saw was a ton of cash to faciliate a Walmart-like move to source thier manufacturing in Maine and cash in on Walpole's still somewhat high land value. There's nothing forward thinking in Walpole Woodworker's agenda here - just getting out of Dodge with as much as they can. WW's quality owner is gone. This new guy has no ties to this town.

How long befoe he does the same thing with the School Street site?

But hey, since your such an override guy, why not start printing the yard signs now for the next override we're gonna need for the 250+ kids the schools will have to accomodate, as well as the upwards of 400+ police calls to this location once this place gets built.

But forget the hyperbole. Let's just operate on the hard facts provided by years of this 40b experiment. If you think those numbers are an exaggeration, ask for the police records to "the preserve" since that place went up. This new one is smack dab in the center of town - on the bus line - and right on the busiest street in Walpole during rush hour.

This one is real bad news for all of Walpole - not just for those of us that live nearby. Override? How you gonna feel when you're paying more taxes and your house still loses value?

Watch for this stuff in the Walpole Times. Go to the meetings. 8 people showed this evening - that's a joke folks.

Think about that when you circle your vote on Saturday....

[Unregistered]

I've just started reading through these postings.... The two big issues here is Commercial Business and the 40B Law...

40B has got to be the most abused law these days by developers who work off of greed and not what is better for the town... What we all have to face is that 40B is going to continue to be a major thorn in this town’s side. Unfortunately these towns’ boards do not have the backbone to stand up to the 40B Laws. Point in question... A recent Zoning Board ruling did not want to impose restrictions on a small 40B because they did not want to have another legal battle like they did with GateHouse.... So because of the fear that they have of Mass Housing, they will go ahead and approve any small 40B projects, just because it is too small to have a legal battle with. What these airheads are doing is opening the floodgates for 40B developers like the ones on Baker Street, Oak Street and any other one that wants to build 15 to 30 units....

You may ask, well these projects are small and they add to the town’s 40B total... Well I'm not sure if everyone knows this but there is a difference between Home Ownership 40B and Rental 40B.... With home ownership, up to 25% count towards Walpole's 40B total whereas with rental, 25% are labeled affordable and the other 75% are market rate rental but ALL 100% of the total units count towards Walpole 40B total....

Walpole is being driven further into financial chaos because of what these town boards are doing by not fighting the small 40B.

Here is my reasoning for what I just said.

Walpole is at approx. 5.7% for 40B housing. Rough numbers 7000 households in Walpole 5.7% (399) are 40B affordable. 300 of the 399 number are located at the Preserve (GateHouse) of which only 75 units there are priced affordable.

I'm no mathematician but for every 40B rental (i.e. Gatehouse - of which 25% are Affordable priced and 75% are market priced), Walpole's 40B stock increases by the total number of unit in the project, this amounts to .01% for each unit. This may seem like a miniscule amount but all Walpole would need to reach the 10% is approx. 430 rental units.

On the flip side, with Home Ownership 40B, only 25% of the unit’s counts towards the 40B total, but the full 100% of them are added to the towns housing total (this is not the 40B total). Again simple math shows that a 40B Home Ownership adds only .0025% to the town’s 40B total. This means that to achieve the 4.3% needed by Walpole to reach the 10% 40B limit, approximately 1720 Homes will have to be built.

It may seem overwhelming but here are some numbers to ponder.... If this town continues to destroy the neighborhood structure of single family homes by allowing home ownership 40B, Walpole will need approximately 1720 units to achieve the 10% 40B level needed to deny future developments. If Walpole fights the abusive developers, that build the 40B Home Ownership Housing, and support building of 40B Rentals, Walpole would need about 430 Rental Units to reach the 10% 40B level needed to deny future developments....

To be honest, no one wants 40B period.... but a 430 unit apartment building versus 1720 Townhouses is a lot easier for this town to digest in terms of financial and environmental resources.


With 430 Rental Units:

- How many children will you add to the school system. Even if half the unit have 1 child that amounts to about 215 children versus the several thousand that would be the result of over 1700 new condo’s.
- Trash collection is done by the building owner, this will not add to the towns removal costs.
- Water & Sewer will be for 430 units, not 1720....


Another fact people should know about with 40B. There is a time limit of 15 years to 20 years that these units will remain under the 40B umbrella.....So do you allow Apartments to be built on a few commercial properties or do you allow 40B homes built on 150+ 1 acre residential lots ( or 80+ 3 acre residential lots)? That's a lot of residential properties being scooped up like the developers on Baker Street did and who know where else around town.


I think I might have said enough for now on the 40B topic. Now want about increasing the Commercial base in the town.

We all know that the commercial tax base in this town has been eroding for a number of years. Town officials in charge of attracting businesses (didn't we hire a town planner or economic planner, what about the Master Plan) to this town have failed miserably. This failure is not because we did not attract businesses, it is due to the type of businesses this town seems to attract. We could say some money by eliminating there jobs.

I really don't see any accomplishments of these individual(s). Bayer was planning to expand for some time, the Walpole Mall appears to be holding its grounds....so what kind of businesses have this town attracted??? We have a lot of Landscaping Companies and Warehouses... I can't think of anything else.

The commercial success of this town lies with the commercial land owners. If they don't care about the type and quality of businesses they want to develop for then this town is screwed.

The Commercial property owners need to look for what is best for the town, not their pockets.
***************

[Unregistered]

You make a lot of good points here, but you're missing the boat on the small 40b vs. the larger units.

The intent of the board with regarding to encouraging 40b is to anable the town to control the probelms that are inherent in such developments and still contribute to the mandatory 10% affordable housing requirtement set down by the state.

Take for example the units proposed for the cite on South Street - 18 units total, 25% of which iwll be affordable housing. (by the way, this development was discussed in great detail Tuesday night at town hall and no one from the South Street area was in attendance)

The job of controlling and supporting 3 - 5 units is far more manageable than controlling 25% of the 250 units proposed at the center of town.

Let's face it. Affordbale housing brings with societal problems - not just
economic issues. look at Look at the past 2 years of gatewood as evidence.)

This woodworkers development is probelmatic on so many levels - even if it were not affordable housing. 250 kids (average 1 per unit) 600 cars - avergae 2.3 per unit) water, fire & safety, access and egress onto East & Kendall Streets

What does this add up to? Several more overrides over the next few years.

The smaller, strategically placed 40b's are more easily absorbed and managed.

Dumping 250 units in the center of town all at once is a financial bomb.

[Unregistered]

What can we do as a town to stop this from happening? I will go to meetings, hold up signs, whatever it takes.....

[Unregistered]

On the 40b issue, one can argue the positives and negatives till one is blue in the face but the reality is it will happen eventually - Walpole is below the State's mandate of 10%. The town should be proactive in working with the developer to get the most palatable project approved rather than another Gatehouse where there are three bedroom apartments and "low income" people. Under the 25% program the affordable units are geared towards "moderate income" people and not "low income". Limiting to a mix of 50% one beds and 50% two beds will reduce the number of school age children significantly.

Until Walpole gets an approved housing production plan with DHCD they are even more susceptible to 40Bs occurring on a continous basis. Perhaps as part of the mitigation package with the developer the developer will fund some money so Walpole can get a housing production plan done. Having a plan in place allows the town to limit 40b development on a yearly basis.

Clearly people are upset by the proposed 40B developments in town but something people should be aware of is the following: I understand that a 40b is being proposed in Sharon on the Walpole line on Route 1. The developer is asking Walpole to allow them to tie into the water and sewer system. The deal only works if they get water and sewer from Walpole. If people want to try to stop 40B in town surely one shouldn't allow one to be built on the town line using Walpole services.

[Unregistered]

I thought the town already had a plan. If not, why hasn't the Affordable Housing Committee come up with one?

[Unregistered]

I'm sorry, but I am confused by this whole 40B issue....

1) How is it that a business is able to sell their property, which is obviously zoned for commercial use to a developer to build housing? Doesn't the town have any right to say, "NO, we need to keep it for commercial use."? Especially since we are barely able to afford to provide public services (i.e. education) to the residents who are currently living here.

2) If a housing development is built with 25% set aside for affordable housing, won't the other 75% just cancel it out? In other words, while we would be adding, say 60 affordable units, wouldn't we also be adding another 180 to the pool of normal market rate? It seems that thus is just increasing the population in the town, while making no real difference in affordable housing.


3) What is considered affordable housing these days? Are homes that have been selling in the $300's counted? That is surely affordable by today's standards, no? Or, does it only mean low-income apartments or homes built by Habitat for Humanity? (I don't mean to sound snobbish, but we had to work for many years before we could afford to buy a modest home in the suburbs.)

4) Do towns like Medfield, Dover, Sherborn, Westwood, etc. have anywhere near 10% affordable housing? Are they dealing with huge low-income housing developments to the same degree? If not, then what are they doing that we're not?

[Unregistered]

I don't understand why every town needs 10% to be 40b. I can see 3 or even 5%, but 10%? I worked hard and sacraficed a lot to get to where I am. It wasn't easy but I did, and your trying to tell me 10% can't? It's to bad because there are people derserving of it and who really do appreciate it, but then you have the others who are to lazy to get a job, or who play the system and live with their significant other and there kids, but never get married to were only on income is looked at and they fall with in the guidelines of 40b. If you have to have 40b there should rules. Obey the law and control your kids. If you can't do that then move over and let the next derserving family in. We are destroying our state. We are making it to easy for people.

[Unregistered]

One of the largest apartments complexes to hit Peabody, right off of 128. The buildings are about 4 to 5 stories high and dwarf the Preserve apartments. I was driving by them the other day visiting relatives and a fire occurred in one of the buildings. I am not too sure what the % of 40B is in the Peabody location. The reason the Preserves went to 50% is because the State, I believe, approached them and offered them a great loan if they did this. Basically this town has no say when financed by the State. We should work with this developer and see what can be done. Maybe also try to get some funding to put aside for other 40R projects. We should make this site a 40R or 40S, were we can receive $ for students. Or make this affordable for Seniors. Developers are greedy and this is great money to them and these apartments are going up every where. If there was no money to be made they would not be going up. They use cheap materials build tons of apartments and hold on to them for 15 years and then convert them to condos down the road. All of the college students I know would rather rent a 3 family or 2 family or own a condo than live in one of these buildings. It's funny I was reading the globe a while back and Middleton Mass has a correctional facility in their town and requested the state to consider that as part of their 40B and it was approved. Is MCI Cedar junction being considered as part of our 40B? If not, why not?

[Unregistered]

Smaller 40B:

You have some good points as well, but spreading it across town is not the answer.

The main point I was trying to get across is that 40B home ownership is not the solution for this town 40B problems. If a large tract of land is not used for 40B rental, this town will never reach the 10% needed to legally reject future 40B's. Maybe spreading out 40B rentals into smaller unit is fine, but where are you going to fit an apartmenty building on a 2 to 3 acres lot...

There is no way to control and manage 40B let alone work with the developer.

The Oak Street project is a perfect example. The developer approached all the abutters making all sorts of promises then getting the Affordable Housing Committee to OK the project and then tried to push it past the Board of Selectman as a Friendly 40B with 24 units and nothing about what was promised to the abutters.

Luckily the Board of Selectman was informed of all this before the meeting where the developer was trying to push a vote of acceptance as a Friendly 40B... Safe to say the BOS threw everything but the kitchen sink at the developer.

Attempts were made with the developer to work together on this, but what was the final result... The developer filed 40B with Mass Housing after tell the board that he could not reduce the size because it would not be economically feasible.... Well the developer is down to 16 units, should be 12 and has fought the DEP on building his project. Walpole's own Conservation Commission overlooked so much and supported the developer. Walpole's zoning board was to spineless to say or do anything because they did not want another gatehouse fight and said it was too small to fight...

As I stated in my original post, we are talking over 1700 condo's versus a bit more than 300 rentals for Walpole to reach the 10%.

When Gatehouse was going it, it was published that other 40B rental properties developed by Gatehouse around the state did not generate the increased number of children to the school system as people predicted... I believed it was something like .3 to .5 children per apartment. 2 to 3 bedroom condo's will surely have at least 1 child per unit.

Again, simple math... 225 unit * .5 children is approx. 112 students, 1700 condo's * 1 child per condo is approx. 1700 students....

Is the school system ready for this? Were they ready for the Endean Estates (200+ homes with maybe 1 to 2 children)? I think the answer is NO....

The sooner Walpole get to the 10% (if that every happens) the better.

Were you also aware that if Walpole shows an effort (a 2% to 3% increase) they can legally reject any other 40B on the grounds that the town is working aggresively on it 40B dilema?

In closing, the only way you can work with a 40B developer is to give them anything and everything they want. If not they will go to the courts....

Is this managing growth???

[Unregistered]

Dave... re: entry #18 in this thread...

I went down to the Town Hall last Tuesday night at around 7:15 to go to a big meeting about this Walpole Woodworkers issue... I got there and could find no such meeting. I saw one meeting of the Conservation Commission going on in one room, and I saw another smaller meeting going on in another room... I cannot recall what the note on the door said but it didn't say anything relevant to 40B or Walpole Woodworkers.

Earlier last Tuesday, I received an email with reams of other email addresses on it, advertising a meeting at 7pm at the Town Hall about this issue...

Was it really over at 7:15?

And if the meeting did take place, what happened?

[Unregistered]

If you read my postings (#19 & #27), they may answer most of your questions regarding 40B.

In response to your questions, 40B lets a developer bypass most, if not all, town bylaws to build whereever and whatever density of development they want.

In simplier term, say you have a 2000 sq ft home in Walpole on 3 acres of land. I'm using 3 acres because there are a few 40B happening in Walpole on 3 acres lots... If a developer purchases your property to build say 5 homes on, they may try and sub-divide the property into 5 lots or whatever the town bylaws may allow; 5 sounds reasonable here. This would be the ideal scenario. But say your lot has wetlands or borders commercial property and is really not that desirable to build expensive homes on.

Now comes the developer who is thinking only of his pockets. This is the lastest of developers who see 40B as a money tree. 40B permits the developer to bypass all town bylaws and permit them to build whatever density of units they desire. Mass Housing, the 40B authority rubber stamps everything.

For home ownership 40B, density is how many condo units the developer can squeeze into the buildable land. With Baker Street its around 6 per acre, Oak Street 16 per acre, Centre lane (not sure if it is 40B) is about 6 - 8 per acre. We are not talking apartment style buildings, we are talking Condo's. Condo's size on average is approx. 1500 to 2000 sq ft with garage. Basically they are paving over the entire lot. Is this appropriate for a neighborhood of single family homes? NO... But this is what 40B allows them to do.

I would like to add that developers only consider 40B on properties that are undesirable. New homes are built on properties that attract people to buy. Undesirable properties have appeared to always be commercial and industrial properties. These properties are either on Highways, bordering landfill, bordering blighted commercial site, etc...

I think I've killed this topic enough.

The answer to another question of your's regarding 40B totals per town...Read posting #19. Yes, 40B Home Ownerships does very little to support the towns total. With 40B rentals, not only do the 40B designated units count, but the entire amount does as well.

Another one of your questions. "What is considered Affordable Housing"?

The price paid for what is consider affordable is a calculation based off of the Median Income of the town. For Walpole, I believe the unit cost is between $160000 and $180000 per affordable housing unit. The other 75% of a project can sell at market rate.

For example, based on the record on fill with Mass Housing for Oak Street, the developer could sell the Affordable units for no more that $175000 but can sell the remaining unit for upwards of $400000.

A lot of people disagree with this affordable price. There are no towns (except for the Berkshires) that even come close to this affordable price.

As for what the surrounding towns are doing; Dover, Sherborn, Westwood?

For one thing, these towns have fought against 40B, but also you have to stand back and take a look. How many undesirable parcels of land do these towns have? Remember what I said. 40B's are typically built on undesirable properties.

[Unregistered]

Anyone know the rules of Eminent Domain? I know the town of Canton took some land away from a developer a few years back because they didn't want the land developed. The town was only required to pay the developer the same price that he paid for it. He tried sueing, but lost.
From what understand, a town just has to show a need for the land. Well, we need a centrally located parcel to build a new police/fire station, right?

[Dave]

There was a meeting at town hall last Tuesday to discuss affordable housing, but it was not specific to the Walpole Woodworkers issue. In fact, it was more realted to a proposed development on South Street near the Superfund cite.

The TM was meeting with the developer in a much smaller setting, and was good enough to move the meeting to a larger conference room so we could all see what the developer was proposing. they then gave us a ton of htier un-planned time to talk about the Woodworkers proposal about which they didn't have a lot to say.

In essence, they knew a little bit more than we did. They wouldn't admit to it, but I think they were pretty P.O'ed at the same things we are, starting with the absence of an offer to the town to buy the land, which even they know isn't a possibility.

I will say this, watching them work with this developer was eye opening, we learned alot about 40R,& 40R, as well as how it can work when it's done right (as is the case with the South Street development)

At the end of the day, its a bad law, but it's a law that's tough to get around. TM's been through this before with Gatehouse and quite honestly, to listen to them talk, they fought the good fight, spent a ton of money in court, and still lost.

What I see when I read about 40b is an that it's an opportunity for greedy developers (is there any other kind?) to by pass zoning and other restrictions IF your town doesn't meet the 10% minimum. They just make sure that a certain percentage of the new development is made affordable housing (which I think means it's no more than 80% of market value)

So they throw up 250 units, sell 60 of them as affordable, and make as much of a killing on the rest as possible. trouble is this deelopment is a problem even with out the 40b issue. This town just can not afford to support 300 more kids.

But that's what so good about 40b to the developer - it doesn't matter that the town can not support the property, they still have to meet the 10%.

There were about 10 of us there that night, but it was short notice, and I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity to have your voice heard.

One thing I know for sure. This can't not be a Walpole thing. The only way to beat down his 40b is by several communites challenging the law itself. Towns need to go to the state an shown them that 40b isn't fair to cash strapped communities. They simply can not respond to the demand for services these developments create.

Just keep up to date, read the papers, and this thread. It appears to be a pretty good source for neighborhood chatter. More than anything else, become educated on the 40b law.

[Unregistered]

To #29 ---Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. (I am Poster #24)

If the 'affordable housing' price is calculated based on Walpole's median income, why then is the price so unbelievably low (160,000 - 180,000)? I mean, there are no homes for sale anywhere in this vicinity, never mind in Walpole, for that price. That's more than affordable, that's practically a giveaway.

Does anyone know if people already living in Walpole (renting, perhaps) are given priority when these homes are being sold?

You (poster #29) stated that other towns have fought the 40B's. So, then, it can be done. How did they do it?

Also, you said that towns like the ones I mentioned do not have any 'undesirable parcels' of land. What makes the Walpole Woodworkers property 'undesirable'? I'd consider that prime property (in the center of town, abutting residential properties, close to everything). It's not like this has been an undeveloped piece of property that has been an eyesore to the town. I'm sure it could be utilized in a number of other ways, that could have a positive effect on the finances of the town.

Again, I want to thank those who help to educate people like myself on these matters. I think more people should get involved and learn what's going in town, so we can work together to have a bright future for Walpole.

[Unregistered]

Can the prison be considered 40b? If not why? Exactly what percent does Walpole currently have and how many more units does it need? What happens if the town fights not to have 10%?

[Unregistered]

Here is a link to a Globe article from last year regarding the bill relating to counting the prison as affordable housing. Not sure what happened with it...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0516-03.htm

[Unregistered]

I found a good website that explains a lot. If you google Citizens housing and planning association and then go to that website. Click on 40 b then click on fact sheet, it explains the process pretty well. Hope people find it useful.

[Poster 29]

I now the for sale price sounds low but from what I read regarding the formula. I believe the formula is something like 160% the median income over the median income. So if the median income is say $70000 then 160% is approx. $112000 plus the median income...result is $182000. Again this is the rough calculation. The exact formula can be found at CHAPA.ORG.

As for the prison, it has already been tried with little success.

Even the Inspector General Office confirmed that.

[Unregistered]

I always have to laugh when I hear about people in Walpole (Even our representative) whining about the "burden" Cedar Junction places on the Town of Walpole.

That movement to include the prison as affordable housing is ridiculous. Oh, how I remember how everyone was hoping that renaming the prison Cedar Junction would make the prison somehow "disappear" in the eyes of potential real estate buyers. Now we want to claim it? Well, if that is so, I say rename it "Walpole Prison" (like everybody still calls the place)!

What great burden does MCI Walpole (there, I just renamed it) cause for the town? Its a maximum security prison for gods sake...famous around the United States!

Go Walpole (Prison)!

[Unregistered]

In response to Reply #27 the issue with the Gatehouse proposal is as follows:

1. The town fought Gatehouse all the way to Housing Appeals Committee on the project and lost. Gatehouse's project was that 50% of the project be affordable at 50% of median income (low income Section 8 vouchers). To further add insult to injury there are 48 three bedroom units. Three bedroom units mean families with children.
2. The town should have negotiated with Gatehouse and asked there be a 50/50 split between one and two bedroom units and NO three bedroom units and that only 25% of the units be affordable at 80% of median income (moderate income). The number of school age children would be significantly lower and the demographic of those children would be different as well.
3 Had the town been more proactive and understood the 40B program better it could have forced Gatehouse in this direction and as a result gotten a better project. They probably could have negotiated a smaller project as well.

[Unregistered]

Unfortunately Walpole only has 5.8% including the Preserve apartments. If you add an additional 250 units we will be at 8.5% still short of our 10% mandate by the state. We should definitely learn from our mistakes, since history tends to repeat itself. I am sure if I was Fairfield apartments I would be reviewing the Gatehouse court case very carefully as well as cases that did fail and why, note few cases actually are won. In Danvers a developer wanted to build 125 units and make 25% affordable housing and the town rejected it. It went to the board of appeals and now 250 units were built, not good. We should definitely shoot for smart growth, 40R. Personally we shoudl shoot for 55 and over affordable housing or housing for recent college grads. Since Governor Patrick stated our youth was leaving the states for affordable housing I think this is an opportunity. Chances are recent college grads do not make tons of money off the bat and are not looking to get married and have children anytime soon. I waited 14 years to have children after college and ate out quite a bit. Most grads do not like to cook for them selves so if anything restaurant service needs will go up and maybe we can finally have the Kahuna replaced by another restaurant.

[Unregistered]

I'll give you credit, at least your thinking differently than most.

My question is this: Why would a recent college graduate with no kids want to live in Walpole? If you don't have a family, there's not a heck of a lot of reason to live here.

Maybe if your job was out here it would be worth while living here, but that's the problem isn't it? NOT ENOUGH COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITIES IN WALPOLE.

I work for one of the larger commercial tax payers in town. I moved here because my job was close by.

The town needs the money because it's growing, but its growing in all the wrong areas. But it not the town administrations fault. I can cite several occasions where economic expansion was ready to happen, and neighborhoods rose up to protest.

You just can't do that and then expect not to have to deal with problems like this.

Walpole is not what it once was - we all have to face that. It's still a great town, but the mill town is gone. Townies can blame the yuppies, and the yuppies can blame the townies - that's just a foolish waste of time. We're all being asked to make choices that 20 years ago we didn't have to think about.

Not everyone will be happy

This is a tough nut to crack - no doubt about it. It's going to take everyone pulling in the same "general" if we hope to accomplish anything.

[Unregistered]

You do have a point and I was just thinking of the train station right down the street, basically an easy commute to the city. I lived in Norwood after college in a townhouse. Basically had fun in Boston but loved comming home after it was over. Actually quite a bit of single young people live in townhomes when I graduated. We also have the outlets right up the street, young people love to shop and so do the seniors.

[Unregistered]

I would disagree with you on the Gatehouse totals.

Based on what I've read, 100% of the units counted towards Walpole's 40B total; that is how we went from 1.7% to 5.7%.

You also have to remember that there is a time limit for how long a 40B remains on the books. I believe it is somewhere between 15 and 20 years.

So why not get push for 40B Apartments and get it over with, get above 10% and tell Mass Housing to take a hike. As I said before, if this town keeps going with 40B Home Ownership, we will NEVER get above the 10%.

If my numbers hold true, and they will, don't you think 125 more kids (number could be lower or higher) is a lot better to deal with than having 2000+.


As for the need for commercial tax base, sure the town is in serious need, but where??? If you look at all the commercial property around town, you will see there are few large tracts of land. Mostly everything is small and fragmented. To bad the town could not use some of the capped landfills?

It should also be noted that the larger tracts are owned by only a few individuals who have no interest in working with the town planner on developing. So what are these property owners attracting for tenants?

Lets take a look at the South Walpole Industrial area...Prime real estate on Rt 1. What do we have... Trucking warehouses....

Not look at the industrial park area on 1A (I think it is Industrial Road). What do we have for businesses there ? Warehouses, chemical companies. Lets not forget 1A. Junkyard, junkyard, junkyard. Someone had a bright idea to move the junkyards out and put a golf course.

What kind of revenue can you get from that.

[Unregistered]

I know the police have been wanting a new building. Would it be possible to put a new station and a complex with 40 bs on the same peice of land. I'm sure people would be a lot more willing to pass an overide if that were the case. Where did this law come from? It seems like a large percent of the towns are against it, is there any steps we can take to change it?

[Unregistered]

I am very uneducated about the 40 B deal and am very impressed with how knowledgeable the folks on this thread are about it. All of this makes me wonder if you have any free time to volunteer to help our town government get the best possible solution to this situation. I agree with the poster who pointed out that the WW is zoned commercial. Can't we keep it that way and reject it as residential? I'd rather see a Banana Republic, a Baby Gap, a Talbot's and a Chili's go in there.

As for the police/fire station, we should put it right there next to the 40Bs, since that's where the cops spend most of their time anyway!

Seriously, though, if any of the folks reading this thread are attorneys, how about donating some of your time to help our town make the best of this situation by doing a little pro-bono work on our behalf??!!

[Unregistered]

Yes #44. that's a great idea. I know an attorney in town who has extensive experience in town government and vast knowledge of 40Bs. The only problem is that he is currently part of the 40B problem, cashing in on this legal loophole and destroying a quiet residential area.

[Unregistered]

Did anyone see March 25, 2007 Boston Real Estate Section front page "Living in Chic (in suburbia)? The project highlighted a competitor of Fairfield Residential, the Hanover Company, and the projects they are building in Massachusetts specifically a project in Braintree called the Ridge at Blue Hills. The article raved about what the complex offers and a similar project they completed in Billerica. It more or less said the apartments were comparable to high end condos. They are cutting edge in the amenties they offer and their appearances.

What it did not say is that both projects were approved as 40bs. One is a 324 unit project in Billerica and the other is 186 units in Braintree. The projects were approved with 75% of the units as affordable and the remaining 25% for moderate income not low income. Not all 40bs are like the Perserve particularly in the Town limits the units to 1 and 2 bedroom units and has the developer commit to only 25% of the units at 80% of median income.

[Unregistered]

Unfortunately, it appears everytime a business leaves this town, we are saddled either with a contaminated waste site or a use that does not satisfy the Town residents. It's hard to believe the Town officials were not aware of Walpole Woodworkers leaving however, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Now, we are faced with dealing with yet another 40B development, along with the 40B on Oak/South St, Baker/Carriage Lane area, Gatehouse and let's not forget the Sharon's proposal for 180 units behind Bickford's Grill abutting the Walpole Country Club. The legacy of Commercial businesses that have left this town is deplorable and it's about time this Town started to speak up about what we attract.

[Unregistered]

The article I read said the Sharon 40bs behind Bickford's would only work if Walpole allowed them to tie into our water and sewer. So hopefully if that's true Walpole smart enough to say no.

[Unregistered]

Regarding Sharon's plan to build a 40B on the Walpole line. How is it possible that another town can tap into our water/sewer lines? Sharon is proposing 180 apartments to be built on 1A near the new Lexus dealership.

[Unregistered]

It is possible for Sharon to tap into Walpole's water ONLY with permission from the Town of Walpole. There is a meeting Monday night @ 8:00 (article in Walpole Times) to consider Sharon's request. When Lexus (the place next to the proposed construction) applied to Walpole to use its water they gave the town a large financial donation. And of course right after they started using our water we had more water restriction days....

[Unregistered]

The town of Walpole , in exchange for the underwriting of a Million Gallon tank,allowed the dealership to connect to our water and sewer system.
I was lead to believe that no others along that stretch could tie in...if they can we have , once again, taken our eye off the ball. Does anyone know for sure????

[Unregistered]

The answer is easy, many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Unregistered]

The Selectmen were approached over two years ago concerning a high end AQV on the old Bird Machine Site. The modest numbers gave an almost 2 mill profit to the town every year without using any services other then emergency.
The EDC was hell bent in commercial development and fought the AQV every inch if the way: The site supposedly is too polluted for residential development.
Remember this site is not even an EPA site as is South Street. Now it seems it just dandy to put people on that contaminated site.
This is the frustration that faces anyone who tries to work with this town, there is absolutely no consistency or vision.
This is what makes those who try and get involved think we are wasting our time!

[Unregistered]

AQV? What's an AQV?

[Unregistered]

According to the Walpole Times dated April 5th, there will be a meeting Monday night at 8 p.m. at the Delaney water treatment plant on Washington Street regarding the request of Simpson Homes to acquire water and sewer connection from Walpole for the 40B project proposed in Sharon next to the new Lexus dealership.
Isn't this a strange place to have such a meeting? Walpole residents should attend and voice their opinions. Is the Delaney water treatment plant at the Department of Public Works yard on Washington Street? How does one find the Delaney water treatment plant?
Why would this town consider allowing usage of our sewer and water in another town when we are forever having water bans, etc.? The almighty dollars the town receives may cost us more in the long run.
Any 40B project in Sharon on the Walpole side of Route 1 would have more of an impact on Walpole than on Sharon. No doubt, it would eventually put pressure on our police and fire departments which could get there much quicker than their Sharon counterparts.
Residents would be more inclined to go into Walpole Center than Sharon as it would be closer.
Such a project should count toward 40B units in Walpole.
However, it would seem that the 40B rules will be modified sooner or later at the State level. One doubts that it was the intention of the State to help greedy developers and hand the towns more problems.

[Unregistered]

An AQV is an Age Qualified Village.
55+ min age to live there...
By the way the developer got such a run around he has move on to greener pastures.
The say 'strike the iron while it is hot'.
And the EDC still hasn't attracted commercial development

[Unregistered]

Ok, this is what I know.
There is Gatehouse, then Jim Brady's 40B on Baker, Sharon's 40B on route one, Vianno's 40B on Oak Street, an unknown(to me) Developer's at the Woodworker's.


Any more I am unaware of?
If this wasn't so sad it would be laughable.

[Unregistered]

I remember seeing a comment in the Walpole Times from one of our past selectmen regarding an AQV. That we should not put an AQV in the old Bird Machine site since it would increase our property values. I could not keep thinking to myself while I was laughing "You are right, why would we want $2 million dollars estimated in tax revenue to the town, no school children and an increase in our property value"? The old Bird machine area is a great place to put an AQV, in my opinion. Seems odd to have an industrial park there to begin with. The Walpole Woodworkers area is also great area as well for an AQV. The town should be contacting this developer and try to strike up a deal for an AQV to happen there. A police Station combination fire station would have worked well in the Walpole Woodworkers area but Unfortunately I am possitive this will not happen. It would only happen if the deal falls apart with the developer and the town approves on an override to pay for the land and pay for the police station combo fire station. We just shot down an override down for the school/town for 3.9 million because people can not afford more money to pay taxes. I am sure Walpole Woodworkers is receiving more money for the land than they ever thought they would be. Also, regarding the comment to the writer of the Sharon 40B should be given to us. Sharon would love to do this to Walpole why do you think they are agreeing to put this developement on our side and believe me they are smiling right now. The developement can not take place unless Walpole supplies the water and sewage to them. We should not give our resources or sell our resources to another towns homes or businesses if 100% of it falls in that town. We have potentially 2 40B's/40R's coming in and maybe a third, Walpole Woodworkers site and 1A (Norfolk and Walpole) and another one some where else. I think there were several reason why the town worked with the Lexus dealership. One, it was in the town prior to leaving up the street. Second, Lexus agreed to sell its property to the mall for expansion. Third, Lexus paid big money for the water/sewer that we needed. Lastly, some of the land that the new Lexus delearship is on is in Walpole. Remember 100% of this developement is in Sharon not Walpole. The town of Sharon in my opinion should be finding a way to work with this developer not Walpole.

[Unregistered]

Regarding the Sharon 40B in the Walpole line. who makes the decision? Water & Sewer Commission or BOS after input from Water & Sewer?

If we want to stop it, pressure and input needs to be put at the level making the decision.

What local attorney is representing the 40B?

If people make feelings known early before the horse trading starts there is better chance to stop it. It seems the horse we get always has a limp!

[Unregistered]

Clearly, Sharon is trying to make their problem our problem. They have the same 40b issues every other town has, and they're trying to stick thier's on the outskirts of town. Waplole will get its share of police calls as a by-product of that development.

I say we say - No

[Unregistered]

So, where is the Delaney water plant where the meeting is tonight at 8 p.m. regarding the 180 units of 40B's in Sharon on the Walpole side of Route 1? Of course, this town should say no!
Don't you think allowing Lexus to connect to our sewer and water was the camel getting his nose into our tent - pretty soon the whole camel will be in the tent!
It has been suggested by some that we should be picketing Walpole Woodworkers on East Street here in Walpole with signs opposing what they want to do to Walpole after Walpole has been their host town forever and ever. It has also been said that we should be picketing Walpole Woodworkers at the site that they are moving to and at their other places of business so the public will learn what Walpole Woodworkers are really all about.
One wonders if Walpole officials were not told or warned that something was going on at Walpole Woodworkers two or three months ago. Will any town official reading this 'fess up? However, the time now is to stand up for
Walpole! So we won't waste time wondering who knew what and when.

[Unregistered]

The Delaney Treatment plant is just off Washington street(heading South) just before you get to the Town yards. I would like to see the whole concept of intermunicipal agreements abolished since Walpole is becoming the sacrificial lamb for Sharon and who knows what other towns are lurking. I say, let these Town handle their own problems and stop relying on Walpole to be the savior. We may benefit monetarily in the short run however, the long run is what we should be concerned about.

[Unregistered]

In regards to the meeting to discussing a possible tie in to Walpole's Water & Sewer for the Sharon 40B....

I agree it is a bit unusual to discuss this at the water department. Has this been posted anywhere???

They can discuss the tie in until they are blue in the face but I believe the ultimate decision comes down to the Town Meeting.

Last year the Lexus dealerships offer to fund a new water tower, was presented and approved at Town Meeting. A previous poster was correct in saying that it was a financial donation to get the tie in.

I don't think they can get approval until it goes through town meeting. You may want to double check with the Town Clerk. Mostly everything the Water Dept wants to do goes before town meeting for approval.

I was looking over the agenda for the next meeting and I don't remember seeing anything pertaining to the 40B but there is part of the town meeting that is open to new business that does not get printed on the agenda.

It would not hurt to contact your precinct members and forewarn them of the issues and to look towards there support in rejecting anything that may come before them that relates to the Water & Sewer tie in.

Whoever posted this information, thank you for the heads up. I know I would be against it.

Another poster already hit the nail on the head regarding the lat out of town water tie in. We will have increase water shortages if such approval is granted. It kills me to think that a few years ago the Water Department stated that as much as 3 to 4 millions gallons of water a day was going unaccounted for, and this was not just for a few weeks but a few years. If you do the math, that amounts to millions in lost revenues. The Water Dept used this justification for approaching the town for money - what about there revenues - to purchase 10's of thousands of dollars in new metering equipment.

Well they are back again before the Town Meeting requesting more money to maintain this equipment.


Back to the 40B issues. The Zoning Board and Conservation Commission are to blame for the latest wave of small 40B developments. The Conservation Commission continues to overlook the destructive nature these developments have on wetlands that are on these properties as well as provide inaccurate information to the other boards and state agencies that are brought in to investigate.

As for the Zoning Board, they are too spineless to impose any restrictions on a 40B developer for fear of a court battle with Mass Housing (40B Agency).

What about the EDC. They are powerless to do anything or control development. You cannot regulate what you do not own; most of the commercial property owners in Walpole are greedy and do not control tracts of lands large enough to develop the type of businesses Walpole needs.

Point in question, check out the new location near Industrial Road near Chris' Towing on Rt 1A. A large tract of land was cleared and wetland area filed for what company? Answer: A landscaping company that moved from South Street. The South Street property was clearcut of most trees and is basically a mud pit where were the landscaping company washed all their equipment and stored there gasoline and lawn chemicals. Great Job EDC....

[Unregistered]

Picketing Walpole Woodworkers in not going to do a thing.

They have the right to sell the property to whomever they please. So does every other commercial business in Walpole.

What should be done and stick it to Sharon by contacting the BOS, Town Meeting Members and ask for their support in rejecting any request for Sewer & Water. I'm not sure if Mass Housing has a leg to stand on to force Walpole to relinguish the resources.

I wonder if we could get credit for all of the Sharon 40B's. That couple with putting 250+ 40B rentals on the Walpole Woodworkers site would put Walpole over the 10% required to tell Mass Housing to take a hike.

This may sound extreme but if this could be done, we would be out of the woods with the 40B limits.

[Unregistered]

One of the downsides of 40B rentals have been mentioned in these posts as being the number of Police and Fire calls to Gatehouse.

Since this town cannot come up with a plan for a new Police & Fire Building, why not build a 400 Unit 40B rental (this will solve Walpole's 40B limit) at the Walpole Woodworkers site with the Police and Fire in the same complex.

This way they will not have to travel far or their presence will greatly reduce the number of call they receive.


Ok, I'm am only kidding with this. We need a bit of humor once in a while.

[Unregistered]

You say that you are kidding about building both a 40B rental unit and a combined Police/Fire station.....Why is this a joke?....it could actually work!
If Walpole approached the 40B developer and says we'll work with you.....you can build a somewhat smaller unit....say 125 1-bedroom apartments, IF you give to Walpole a few acres for the police/fire station. This really makes a lot of sense....We're adding to our low-income housing quota, and finding a centralized (and affordable) location for the station. This is a no-brainer!

[Unregistered]

http://www.mhp.net/uploads/resources/local_40b_v3_low_res.pdf

http://www.mhp.net/vision/chapter_40B.php

It occurs to me that perhaps the approach to take is to challenge the development - not just the 40b element.

This is a problem for that area beyond the 40b component. (traffic, safety, schools etc)

[Unregistered]

" who knows what other towns are lurking "
The answer is Norfolk.
Where the Southwood Hosp. used to be, on route 1a south.
Our EDC wants to give them water. The think if we do that for them we can hook our start to the development they want to put there!

[Unregistered]

Your post pertaining to fighting the development by getting educated is fine but will not work.

Points in question:

earlier postings of mine I outlined the pro's and con's of 40B Home Ownership versus 40B Rentals.

A quick sumation: Approx. 1700 Home Ownership units vs. 350 Rentals for Walpole to reach the magical 10% set forth by 40B.

Being conservative:

1700 Units would add somewhere in the neighbor of 2000 children to the school system; 350 Rentals say 175 children.

Assuming 2 vehicles per household you have 3400 vehicles vs 700 vehicles.

Assuming 15 trips per day on the roads in Walpole (I'll explain later), we have
51000 trips vs 10500...

1700 Units tied into town water vs. 350....

Based on above occupancies, 5400 residents added to sewerage vs. 525...

5400 residents vs 525 added to the population of Walpole.


Now for some answers from our local boards who review all these figures for the developments.

Answers from the Zoning Board, Water Department, Conservation (where applicable), Board of Health, etc....

DON"T CARE...NO PROBLEM...DON'T CARE....NO PROBLEM...NOT AN ISSUE for this board.

Being very familar with the Oak Street project, all these issues were brought before the various boards only to have the developer produce reports from their consultants telling these board there are no issues. These reports have been manipulated numerous times and then presented to the boards supporting the developements.

Concern: Added population to the area.

Board: NOT AN ISSUE, 40B says the developer can build whatever density he can fit on property. If allowed, Oak Street will place 16 2-3 bdrm condo's on approx. 1 acre of land.


Concern: Traffic & Safety issues from additional vehicles.

Board: NO SAFETY ISSUES..Developer's consultant conducts a study (1 day) showing over 1500 vehicles a day traveled Oak Street. There is in the neighborhood of 100 homes in the area that use Oak Street. (15 trips per day average). This consultant says there is no traffic issues; 32 more vehicles will add only 480 trips. Have you seen Oak Street.

Concern: Property has wetlands and is not far from Town Forest. Property also has Vernal Pool.

Board: DON'T CARE... Developer is providing enough protection of wetlands. The developer is building within 1' to 2' of the Wetlands, will be clearcutting everthing else which will increase possiblity of flooding of abutting properties.

Conservation Board: DON'T care. They do not have the resources to enforce it so why impose on it.


Concern: Water and Sewer hook up.

Board: DON'T CARE... There is a pipe to tie into and it is large enough to handle the additional residences.


Concern: Project is not appropriate for the surrounding neighborhood.

Board: DON'T CARE... Board does not want to impose restrictions on a small 40B for fear of legal battle.


So in response to your posting on 40B education...

Been there...tried it...Didn't work....

[Unregistered]

The Herb Chambers Lexus tie in was a financial no brainer for this town.

It was best we got the money from someone who has it than to get it from some greedy developer who would probably screw the town out of the money claim uneconomical feasibility (a 40B loophole).

The Lexus dealership is just that, a commercial business.

As a town meeting member I would never vote to allow another towns development to tie into Walpole's resources, no matter what the offer, if anything.

Let the other towns deal with 40B.

Come to think of it I cannot think of any of the surrounding towns having a water and sewer tie for a residential project.

Does anyone know of any?

As for Southwood, most if not all of it is in Norfolk. If a commercial business wants to go in there (right next to the prison), let them tie into the prison's water and sewer system.

[Unregistered]

Maybe we can cut a deal with Sharon. We supply water and sewer for their 40B development and in exchange we also supply them with all of the students who will be added to the school system from our own 40B development at the Walpole Woodworkers site.

[Unregistered]

It's to bad because 40b housing shouldn't be looked at in a negative way. If done correctly it shouldn't be bad. I don't think we should be making 3 bedroom ones, I mean looking at the guidelines in order to qualify a family of four or five should be making no more then around $66,000, if that's all your making then you shouldn't keep reproducing. We make it so people don't value anything. I think the real thing we should be pushing for it to toughen up the requirements to qualify. If we see people getting help from the state or town and they're working under the table we should be reporting them. We need to contact our politicians and find out how we can go about this. We shouldn't be having problems in our school system because people in these units can't control there kids. If the police are spending a lot of time over at the Gateway then it needs to be looked into. I don't understand why people who aren't supporting themselves and family 100% are being put before everyone else. This is a big issue that needs to be addressed. We all need to be getting involved.

[Unregistered]

Did anyone go to the meeting last night? I was unable to make it and it would be interesting to hear what was said regarding The Developers request.

[Unregistered]

There were residents at the meeting last night who support giving Walpole water and sewer to the 40B development in Sharon.

[Unregistered]

How can that be that people would be at that meeting to support giving water and sewer from Walpole to Sharon??
Were they related to the developer? or the developer? or the lawyer for the project? or related to the lawyer for the project? or those who would be short-sighted and think that somehow it would be good for Walpole?? Unbelievable!!
Just say NO!!!

[Unregistered]

Why would anyone support giving away our valuable resource?
Were the residents familiy members of the developer? (just kidding but not really)

[Unregistered]

I bet these residents were from Sharon because anyone I mention this to that lives in Walpole says "why would another town give up its resourses to another towns developement".

[Unregistered]

What benefit would the town of Walpole get from giving away it's water?

I'll tell you...........NONE

Just higher water bills and more water bans.

Serving this complex is trouble waiting to happen. Read the police logs at gatehouse. Wait until the schools get swarmed with the GH kids. This is only the beginning.

[Unregistered]

The residents were from Walpole.

[Unregistered]

who says the town is giving away the water? I assume there is some compensation for the service. Let's look at that and decide if it is fair, or perhaps even advantageous, to Walpole.

[Unregistered]

Who cares if there is compensation involved... Walpole does not have the resources to give to Sharon so that they can try and reach theire 40B limit.

There is no compensation in the world, other than letting Walpole have 100% of Sharon's 40B project count towards our total, that would be even considered by the people of this town.

The only reason Herb Chambers got it was because it is a single business...

[Unregistered]

Some residents want the town to give water and sewer to the Sharon 40B because the developer has offerred to build a very high water tower to improve water pressure in the area for Walpole residents.

[Unregistered]

We could build a lot more - perhaps a Senior Center - if we sell off Adams Farm or the South Walpole Town Forest. The South Walpole Town Forest is between Washington Street and Route 1. Great location. Let's sell that land to a corporation and build much much more than a tower!!! Maybe even a new library!!

Are the Sewer and Water Commission elected or apointed?

[Unregistered]

To post 81: Exactly! I live in the area. We have been battling against the Striar 40B on Baker St-also no benefit to Walpole, only to Sharon. My question to those who approve: Do you think for one minute that Sharon would give any approval or resources to Walpole? A developer dangles a carrot and people are ready to grab it. It would set a precedent for many other Sharon 40B projects that affect Walpole.

[Unregistered]

What it all comes down to is money. So let me get this straight everyone pretty much in Walpole is in an uproar because we have to make a 40b housing limit in Walpole, bringing attention to all the trouble that the Gateway is having, yet we have people in this town who are for putting a 40b housing complex in our backyard, using our resource, with us getting no 40b credit????? Are these people for real?

[Unregistered]

Paying for a water tower to increase pressure in that part of town??? What a bunch of crap.

The $1 Million + that Herb Chambers was compensating Walpole with was for a water tower to address pressure issues. That was one of the best deals this town made last year.

Check the information out from the last town meeting. Did something happen with that money?

I urge everyone to oppose sharing this town resources with Sharon and to notify their respective RTM's as well as the BOS about your opposition.

It amazes me that the Water Department would even consider such a thing.

Although come to think of it, they are asking Town Meeting for more funding of their meter project. Maybe they see an offer as being beneficial to them.

If this is the case then they are just as spineless as the Conservation Commission and Zoning Boards for not opposing the 40B initiative.

Maybe Mike B. should reconsider the Florida job.

[Unregistered]

Please read the article in today's Walpole Times. The Lexus dealership is paying for the tower, and they are getting our water. The 40B development is paying for NOTHING and Commissioner Ken Fettig states that if we do not give the project Walpole's water then the developer would have to construct a wastewater treatment plant. According to Fettig it is "much preferred that Simpson goes through the Walpole water and sewer system".

Again, it is the Lexus dealership that is paying for part of the tower (part of it - not the whole thing, the article says they are giving a payment) , not the 40B developer.

The developer has offered NOTHING to the town but still the water and sewer commission is "entertaining the request" for our water.

One month the town has a special election for an override, the next month the town is giving away its resources. What the heck?

[Unregistered]

Did I also tell you that what the developer is saying about a wastewater treatment plant is also a scare tactic to get Walpole to give them a water and sewer tie-in.....

I say let them build a waste treatment plant. Who in there right mind would rent or buy something that is smack next to a waste treatment plant.

If I read the Mass Housing Application correctly there is something pertaining to: IS THE PROPOSED PROJECT WITHIN A HALF MILE FROM A HAZARDOUS WASTE SITE. Am I wrong in assuming that human waste a hazardous material? Maybe the political bull is not but what you flush is.

The health factor alone of having a waste treatment next to residential neighborhoods is ground for getting the State DEP, Health and EPA involved as well as serving as legal grounds to reject the project altogether.

If Walpole's official are even considering supporting the 40B by selling off our town resources, then they should be removed from position with the town.

As I've said in past postings, 40B developers are drawn to build on undesirable properties. What is undesirable about the Sharon property? Why hasn't any developer built there in the past? I'll tell you why.... No water and sewer. Since the 40B is Sharon's problem, I say screw them and not give up any town resources. Mass Housing cannot force Walpole into it.

Also Sharon will have a leg to stand on to reject the 40B.

As for the Herb Chambers deal, I believe Walpole got a large chuck of cash intially and then will be getting payments. Herb Chambers is also paying a water bill as well.

In closing I've told everyone in past posting, contact your town officials before the next town meeting and voice your opinions.

[Unregistered]

I just read the article about the 40bs. They want to build a 180 unit complex. That's going to be alot of people living there, now do you think there're going to cross route one and hang around in Sharon center or walk the 20 minute walk to Walpole center. Between that and the ones they want to put in Walpole Woodworks, good luck moving through the center. It'll be so crowded and if the units are three bedrooms, that'll be a big hangout spot for the kids. They say if Walpole doesn't let them tie in then they'll have to build a wastewater treatment for another million. They just made a 1.5 million project a 2.5 million project. Say no and protect Walpole.

[Unregistered]

Unbelievable. I read the article where it indicated Lexus offered a payment, why would they do this since they are already hooked up to Walpole's water supply and sewer, didn't they make a payment for this already? It would be good to hear what the Sharon 40B is proposing to dish out since they need this more than the Lexus delearship. Although you are correct it seems like $0 dollars since nothing was mentioned in the paper today. Sharon is getting the world frorm an AQV developer building 624 units Luxury apartments. The developer for this 624 units has promised to invest $6.5 million in water pressure improvements for that area off of 95. Here is also something else interesiing that was in the Boston Globe on April 1st "While all 624 units would be luxury, the plan calls for Brickstone to work with Sharon to create 69 affordable units off site. It would join with another developer to develop 36 of those units and contribute $1 million to the town's Housing Partnership to fund the remaining 33". I think if we agree to this, although I do not, we should NOT ignore of what our town can receive from this developer. We need money and lots of it about 2.2 million dollars is about 29% of what Brickstone is giving to Sharon . Also we should charge Non Walpole customers higher rates to pay for the water and sewer they will receive from our town.

[Unregistered]

Money? We need Money? For what? The money that the water and sewer commission would receive goes to their enterprise fund to be used for water and sewer projects. It doesn't go into the general fund so it can't be used for municipal or schools.

Lunacy prevails these days. Walpole is up for sale to the highest bidder.

[Unregistered]

Walpole has always been for sale!
Just a few issues that were shut down that I can think of:
sludge, propane farm, regional trash transfer station ...
If it was not for a handful of watchfull people this place would be worse then chelsea or brockton.
The problem is that most people do not know, or care to know what goes on here in town.
Sooner or later the 'watchdogs' will either move or grow too old to keep this up.
We need the next generation to wake up and start to take an interest in the the town's issues other then schools.

[Unregistered]

Just saw that 2 of the old Selectmen are running for new terms. Neither have a vision of what Walpole will look like in 5 years, nor a plan. Turn them out on their ear. They created this mess!

[Unregistered]

Walpole giving Simpson Housing water and sewer makes the project viable. Without water and sewer the site is not developable for their intended use of 180 40B apartments because the majority of the site is wet and/or has a high water table. The cost to build a package treatment plant is roughly $1.5 million and costs about $75,000 a year to operate. IFitting the package treatment plant and leaching fields on the site would dramatically reduce the size of the project due to the land area required to build such a system and therefore render it uneconomical to develop. Other multi-family developers have had the land under contract in the past and come to the same conclusion I have been told. The land is only developable for what Simpson Housing is planning if Walpole grants it water and sewer.

Sharon would be more than happy to approve this project as the land is really in Walpole and will affect Walpole more than it will Sharon and helps them get to the 10% threshhold. Walpole would be wise to deny their request and concentrate on the pending applications in Walpole and make sure that the proposed projects are not a repeat of Gatehouse's project i.e. no 3 bedroom units and moderate affordability at 80% of median income.

[Unregistered]

I look around at this town and see we have an issue and most of you would agree. Business is leaving and residential developement is growing. The population has grown quite quickly and too quickly in my opinion. The main method of generating revenue for this town is by property taxes. Norwood is constantly increasing the tax base through businesses, Foxborough is increasing their tax base and even Norfolk on 1A is increasing their business tax base. These increases were planned increases and selectman who had a vision for their town. I just want to thank the Bayer company for staying in Walpole, as well as other large companies. Walpole Woodworkers leaving, to me, is upsetting. I love driving on 27 and seeing all the swings, sheds and lamp posts. In the future we will have some ugly big buildings that do not fit the downtown feel as well as additional traffic. Also, if our town selectmen planned for affordable housing in Walpole I strongly believe we would not have had this issue. Face it no one wants it but it is better if it is planned versus some large developer coming in and making us have it. Also, these developers are putting 50% of low income in one location verus 25% since incentives are better. There are grants and money for planning affordable housing. If we planned for it most likely we would have had planned 25% low income. Remember regardless whether it is 25% or 50% of low income ALL rental units count towards affordable housing. We have alot of land in Walpole still left, in my opinion. Please note, with the Walpole Woodworkers site we will still be below 10% of the state mandate.

[Unregistered]

How much is in the Enterprise Fund and what is the purpose?

Rates continue to rise and the commission has an article on the Spring Town Meeting.

I was at the meeting on Sharon's 40B. Two of the commissioners appeared to have a sympathetic ear to the developer.

The folks on Carriage Lane and Neal St etc have an issue with the W&S Commission to increase pressure.

It appeared the W&S Commission want to take a mitigation fee from the developer and perhaps use it to build a new tower.

Follow the $$$.

[Unregistered]

The word to get out to this town and the Water & Sewer commission is NO!!!

Walpole should not help other towns by doling out it resources for such a short term gain as money for a new water tower.

Is a water tower going to prevent water shortages...NO.

Is money from an out of town development going to help Walpole's 40B quota..NO...

When Herb Chambers got approved for the water tie I believe they estimated approx. 6000 to 10000 gallons per day. What do you think a 200+ unit apartment will use????

Here's some other facts...

A couple of years ago, I believe Walpole was informed by the State or Watershed Department that we had to limit our draw on the town wells to sustain a specific level of the Neponset River. I don't know whether they the town got out of this order or they have to abide by it during drought season.

The Water & Sewer Commission has raised the rates several times in past years.

The Water & Sewer Commission stated several years ago that millions of gallons of water per day could not be account for. They spent countless $'s on replacing meters. So have there revenues increased since then? NO... they keep going back to the town for money.



So are there any gains or benefits to the town for selling off our water and sewer resources to a large development? NO...

If we do allow this then the same thing will happen as with the 40B developers. The floodgates will open for more to come.

This may seem a bit far fetched but since Sharon is placing 40B's along Walpole's borders, what would happen if other 40B developers wanted to build as part of the existing 40B complex and want to tie into the other 40B connection. Walpole would be powerless to do anything.

There are more NO's than there are YES's.

[Unregistered]

I can see it now... the town surrounded like a wagon train.
Norwood, Westwood, Dover and Foxboro can all put their 40Bs around our perimeter.
We can sell them all our water for few bucks.
I think we have to get the word out to our RTM’s, call our Selectmen, write to the Times and the W&S people.. we don’t want this.
This is so Walpole.

[Unregistered]

The Times quoted one of the water commissioners saying "Sharon doesn't have much water as it is" (I'm paraphrasing since I'm not looking at the paper at the moment.) That is Sharon's problem, not ours. Even more alarming is the letter stating that two selectmen have been having meetings with a mega-power plant regarding 1A. Those in charge of this town have dropped the ball for years and now the vultures are circling. As for the parents who claim that we're destroying the town because the override didn't pass-a failed override will not destroy a town but all these elements will. Thank God this board is active again!

[Unregistered]

If anyone has a vision for Walpole or a solution, then get your name out there. Reading these threads a lot of people care. Maybe we need new blood in the town political offices. If Walpole doesn't seem to be going in the right direction then it needs to change. Nobody knows who you are unless you put your name out there. I think people are ready to listen.

[Unregistered]

We should come up with a list of pros and cons for giving Sharon our water. CON:
There will be a drought this year and here is the solution, water every other day. Sharons project comes in: Please water with a hose only no sprinklers or water only on trash day like Franklin.
CON:
We need to go to another source we ran out of water in our wells. We will need to activitate the connection that we have with Norwood and Foxborough. We already maintain this connection but it results in the ENTIRE TOWNS costs increasing as a result.
Pro:
We build a water tank that Lexus paid for that increases the water pressure in that area.
CON: Not being used since we ran out of water.

Lets just concentrate on our town and the property that is 100% on our town. Lets face it, there has been no snow this year and there will be a water ban. Sharon residents were extremely concerned with how a Lexus delearship was going to look on Route 1. I would like to see how they will react to a waste treatment.

[Unregistered]

Nothing good will come out of giving Sharon our water. There putting there problem on us with our help. This is ridiculous, you go another 500 feet and your pretty much in Walpole. Who ever agrees with giving them our water has no interest in Walpole or the people in the town. There are a million excellent reasons NOT to give it to them, then you got the foolish people who think of some ridiculous reason to say yes to Sharon. We shouldn't even have to waste our time discussing this, the answer should be easy. NO. I swear people just disagree with people just because they have that right and want to make things difficult.

[Unregistered]

Make your voices heard at the meetings. NO...plain and simple.

Giving our water to Sharon is nothing short of ridiculous.

We will have
1. Water bans
2. Higher water prices.
3. increasing police/fire expenses with (Sharon) 40b

We just voted that last override down. Think about the long-term and all of the expenses that Walpole will be responsible for if this 40b happens. We will be facing overrides all the time.

[Unregistered]

Who is asking us for the water connection? Is it the Town of Sharon or the developer? Maybe the town is hoping we say "NO" and the developer will not want to spend the money on a treatment plant as this will lower his profits.

40b Question:

Could we offer a tax incentive to existing apartment buildings in Walpole to make a few of their units low income? If we raise our percentage enough, could that stop the development of Walpole Woodworkers property?

[Unregistered]

The developer for the Rte 1 40B project is Simpson Housing LLLP. They are based out of Los Angeles and Denver. Does this strike fear in any locals? Our Mass. 40B law is so attractive to people from LA. Water Commissioners, are you listening? Are you still planning to hand over Walpole water to people from Los Angeles? For the benefit of Sharon? To no benefit of Walpole?

[Unregistered]

Page B4 of today's (3/19) Boston Globe has an article about a 40B development in Sharon being stopped by the Mass Housing Finance Agency.
It's not the one that Walpole wants to give away its water to - it's another one. Check it out. Note that the Globe quotes the state inspector general as writing that he found "intentional and overt abuse of the Chapter 40B process".

(see link to Globe story on WalpoleNews main page -- tg)

[Unregistered]

As far as offering a tax incentive to existing apartment building owners, it would be interesting to know how many tenants in apartment rentals, in fact in any rental at all, are subsidized by Section 8 funding. No doubt, there quite a few. Maybe the Housing Authority would be able to say how many there are. The apartment building owners could also give such information.
Those subsidized rentals should count toward our 40B quota, but they don't.

According to the headline article in the Sharon Advocate newspaper dated Friday, April 26th "...plans for the 52 unit affordable housing project (known as Pine Woods) that has come under scrutiny by (Sharon) town officials and residents had support pulled by MassHousing, the state's affordable housing
lender. The move - unprecedented in recent years coupled with the recent approval of another affordable housing project, Avalon Bay, could mean the town (Sharon) can ignore all new Chapter 40B proposals for two years..."
"State Inspector General Gregory Sullivan said developer Intoccia provided faulty and misleading information. State Rep. Louis Kafka and state Senator James Timilty joined Sullivan in requesting MassHousing recind Intoccia's leter of eligibility."
"The state recently certified the 156 unit Avalon Bay project on Edge Hill Road as an affordable housing project...The certification, coupled with the town's housing production plan - approved by the state in December 2005 - enables the town to stop - for a period of two years - any affordable housing that is not already in progress. The move is allowed under Chapter 40B. The certification runs from March 23 through March 22, 2009...Selectmen Chairman William Heitin claimed the certification as a victory for the town's housing production plan. 'We get to control, we get to decide and we get to work proactively with developers' to choose the kinds of developments that will help Sharon meet its affordable housing.'.."

The people of Sharon and their town officials were opposed to the 52 unit proposal known as Pine Woods. One could see the signs put up in Sharon to stop Pine Woods, and it is obvious that the town officials and/or town people got their state legislators involved.
One doubts that we will see the town officials and people of Sharon get too involved opposing 40B affordable housing in Sharon, but on the Walpole side of Route 1. It would hardly affect Sharon except to give Sharon more of a count for affordable housing units. The units would appear to be in Walpole, but not count toward affordable housing units in Walpole! However, such units would be a giant headache for the town of Walpole in many, many ways. Not the least being a big burden on our water and sewer. One can not imagine who in their right mind would ever consider giving Walpole sewer and water to such a project!

There will be changes to 40B sooner or later. This was not intended to benefit greedy developers. It is also of interest where some of these developers are coming from. Some of them are certainly coming from far and wide!

[Unregistered]

5/14 Walpole Water & Sewer Commissioners hearing-to discuss GIVING Walpole's water to the Sharon 40B

[Unregistered]

I am inclined to let Sharon solve its own problems. But before I take that hard approach, I would want to see what the Town of Sharon can bring to the table that would benefit the citizens of Walpole. Let's put our heads together before slamming the door on what might become a win-win situation

If after a thorough exploration, we cannot find an advantage for Walpole, then we should disallow connections to our systems.

[Unregistered]

It's going to bring in a one time hook up fee that goes into the water and sewer enterprise fund that can't be used for schools. I hope that answers your question.

[Unregistered]

Please correct me if I am wrong:

At some point our aquifer will not be able to recharge itself to be able to meet
all the town of Walpole (and now the town of Sharon's) needs. At that point we will have to start buying water from the MWRA which will increase our water bills.

[Unregistered]

Everything is for sale these days. Water...Sewer...Land...maybe Town Seal next....

[Unregistered]

Where is the Sewer and Water Commissioners' meeting on May 14th, and what time is it going to be? I saw a brief notice about it in the Sunday Globe South Section a week or so ago, but I have not seen it announced in the Walpole Times, or did I miss it??
I found an old Walpole Times today from l976, and a front page article proclaimed that the Sewer and Walter Commissioners wanted the public to conserve water. Is that not still a concern, can we afford to give water to another town?
It is no wonder that we have out-of-state people wanting to build a 40B project at the Walpole Woodworkers location. They must think that we will welcome all 40B projects especially when they see us considering helping out a developer for a Sharon 40B project that is practically in Walpole! This town made a mistake when we agreed to help out Lexus! Here comes the whole camel trying to get in the tent!
We have our own aquifer and water supply as does Sharon. There is only so much water.
I can not understand why there would be any discussion about Walpole giving sewer and water to a Sharon 40B project. It would be short-sighted to take whatever the developer might offer us, and then have our town have problems sooner or later with our water supply and our sewer system. I doesn't make any sense.
Obviously, Sharon residents would be opposed to this 40B project if it were in their town, just as they successfully opposed the Pine Woods 40B project. Face it, is it really in their town when it would sit close to our town line, on our side of Route One?!
The Town Administrator hopes that Walpole would get the credit for the 40B units in Sharon if the Town gives sewer and water to this developer.
Do not worry so much about getting the credit for the 40B units. Talk to your State legislators about changing 40B. They all know it is not working out the way it was intended to work, and it will change. One legislator even proposed the 40B law be done away with; that may not happen, but there will be changes.
This Sharon 40B discussion and Walpole Woodworkers are tied together as one subject under Walpole Words. Perhaps 40B can still be attached to Walpole Woodworkers, but also have it's own listing? Some viewers may not realize that the Sharon 40B is being discussed under the title Walpole Woodworkers/40B's.

[Unregistered]

Any information? Not posted on web site.

The TM is trying to bargain for 40B credits. Pitiful

We need to follow the lead of Betty Nasawaty @ TM and just say NO.

[Unregistered]

I called Walpole Sewer and Water Department today and was told that this Sharon 40B will not be discussed this evening, May 14th. There has been a public meeting. The attorney for the developer is Phil Macchi, and he has asked for a delay. The person I spoke to told me that they do not know how that notice got put in the Sunday Globe South Section on April 29th. If anyone has any other information please add it to this thread. Thank you.

[Unregistered]

There is a Conservation Commitee Meeting on June 13th at 8pm to discuss the request from FF Realty Developement company to determine how much of Walpole woodworkers site is wetland. Room 112. All abutters got a notice and there was a small blurb in the sunday globe. Anyone can attend.

[Unregistered]

Congratulations to Betty Nashawaty speaking against the town approving giving Walpole sewer and water to a Sharon 40B development! Mr. Boynton and the Selectmen should do more than tell her point is noted. They should send a strong letter to the the Sewer and Water Commissioners opposing such an outlandish idea!
I was also pleased that Cliff Snuffer asked for information on this proposal and the proposed power plant. Sometimes, a lot of information is not forth coming, or is said in a way so as not to arouse the citizens of Walpole.
Pay attention, people. Don't wait for anything to come and surprise you!
I find that things are well reported in "Walpole News". Everyone should be reading it.

[Unregistered]

Folks, I understand the talk about the Sharon project, and the importance of the decision to give or deny access to Walpole's water & sewer, but seriously, this downtown WW issue is a much bigger deal.

Perhaps we're all focusing on the Sharon development because we feel we have some control over that issue, and none on the WW development.

The proximity to downtown, the bus-lines, the drain on the schools (you should be thinking 300 - 400 kids, and 300+ additional cars), the fire and safety)

I'm telling you - this is a town killer. You all need to focus on this issue and take part in doing whatever you can to stop it from happening.


Just look at the Times each week and note the number of police & fire calls to Hilltop Drive - that's all the evidence I need.

This is your town. Your home. In 3 years, it will not be the same place.

[Unregistered]

One way or another 40B is going to happen in this town. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to compare the numbers.

With 40B Rental you get 100% towards the towns total, 40B Home Ownership you get only 25%.

As I've stated in past posting, this town only needs another Gatehouse ( I know its had problems) to reach the 10% limit. That's approx. 300+ units. With Home Ownership 40B this town would have to build approx. 1500 units.

On the same note, any current and future 40B units we get from Home Ownership, have already been wiped off the books with the Endean Estate (200+ home) and other new housing around town.

If you had a choice, which would you prefer? One thing our town administrator failed to mention at the last town meeting as well as any other public discussion was that a 40B unit has a time limit as to how long the Home Ownership remains under the 40B umbrella. This limit ranges anywhere from 10 to 20 years, after which the 40B that count get removed from the towns total.

Since it is impossible to build all these units in a short period of time, the 40B number will grow slowly (during the same time our total housing increases) and by the time we reach our 10%, some units will start to drop off the total, thus Walpole will never reach the 10% anytime soon.

So why not build allow building of 40B rentals, right around the corner from the Police and Fire Departments, its an ideal location.

Now if we can get 100% credit for Sharon's 40B with the Walpole Woodworker 40B, Walpole will be well above the 10% 40B limit and can then tell Mass Housing to take a hike. Hopefully by the time the numbers start to drop ( in 10 to 20 years) , the 40B Law will be fixed.

We need the numbers now.

On another note, I find it rather ironic that one of the residents against the 40B at the Walpole Woodworkers site is on the Zoning Board that has approved every other 40B around town. At the last approval for the Oak Street 40B the Zoning Board was afraid to impose restrictions for fear of a court fight with Mass Housing because the developement was so small.

Why is he against it? Because it is in his backyard now.

Take a look at where our Zoning Board members reside and you will see that anything they've opposed was in their backyard.

He is also relying on the Conservation Commission to impose restrictions on the wetlands based on his statements that there is a stream that flows on the property.

I've got several documents that I could send to the developer that will shoot down that statement and will clearly prove that the year round stream does not exist. What goes around comes around.

[Unregistered]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/07/25/group_seeks_to_repeal_housing_law/

[Unregistered]

Your question:

"So why not build allow building of 40B rentals, right around the corner from the Police and Fire Departments, its an ideal location"

What the h*%& are you smoking?

I can only assume that the only problem you for see with 250 units smack in the the middle of dowtown Walpole is crime and fire. First off, proximity to the police deprtment does not discourage crime - It just means that the cops will get there quicker (if they are even called). If you disagree just ask the owners of Betro Pharmacy which about 120 feet from the police station.

How about putting 40b on Linolcn Rd, or off west Street, or by the prison even, or any of the other available location being considered for the athletic fields? No way right?

Just remember, towns die from the center of town outward. Traffic and crime discourage people from the downtown area. Business goes down, businesses leave & "fly by night businesses" come in. Condos become rental units, which turn into section 8, which further contributes to the downward spiral.

Hardworking home owners leave because they're unwilling to pay the increased tax rate for education of influx of kids, (many of them special needs) and additional fire and police costs. Home values decrease, making it harder to leave as time goes on becuse you can't afford to sell the home you paid 700K for in 1998 for the 400 you'll get for it in 2008.

Folks, this doesn't happen over 10 to 15 years, it happens over 2 to 5 years.

Call it what you will, call me a snob, but it is what it is. History, numbers and common sense observance doesn't lie. I moved out to this town 25 years ago to get away from this "experimental" crap, and (admit it or not) so did about 50 percent of this town. Don't think for a second that the same 50% won't tyr and pull up and move again.

Never say there's no way around it. You gotta fight this stupid, unfair, biased, bullying, law. We need representation that's willing to take on and lead that fight.

[Unregistered]

This is a great town and it is very unfortunate we have huge apartment complexes coming in because they can. If this town was proactive, which this town was not, 10% of ALL new housing should have been marked afforable housing. Basically any time a new developement comes in 10% of all units need to be marked affordable. 10% homes/condos are put on lottery for anyone in the town who fall below the medium, teachers, police officers, firefighters, housing authority workers etc. We could have made this town affordable to young Walpole familes who wanted to purchase a home in Walpole. I strongly believe our selectman should make it a point to add this to future new developements. I do not care if it stays in the book for 15 years and apartment stay on the books longer. People, and I hate to be general, who live in apartments do not always care.

[Unregistered]

There will be a hearing on the 40B issue this Tuesday in Boston.
Will our TA be there to represent Walpole ?
Been a long time since we have had an update on the Wood Workers project and in this town silence is deadly and usually followed by a develpoment not in our favor.
Where does this stand ..anyone know?

[Unregistered]

mixed uses can be done right or we can fight it and get ANOTHER hostile 40B that the state jams down our throught because again we fight everything insted of embracing and making it work for us

[Unregistered]

are tou affraid of the true getting out to people
I didnt name names and you only know if you know the truth
but i guess you arent about the truth

[Unregistered]

What in the world are you talking about? Your post made no sense at all!

[Unregistered]

The 40R project by Fairfield looks really good and an improvement to the downtown area.

[Unregistered]

the fairfield company 40R building is a great source of revenue for the town

[Unregistered]

That's the formula the selectmen must study when looking at this proposal. Definitely better than 40B. But not without significant impacts.

[Unregistered]

I like it very much .. lots of green space.. just lovely

[Unregistered]

good job fairfield group

[Unregistered]

We should look at the successes of the Preserve Complex on Route 1 in South Walpole when judging 40Bs.

What are they?

[Unregistered]

I think the selectman understand that if Fairfield Residentials went to the state chances are instead of 198 units it could be more like 300 units. They would also not receive any money from a 40B. As a 40R project I believe the town is slated to receive $800,000 versus 0. Also, if Fairfield went to the state we would be at 50% low to moderate income at 60% of the medium income instead of 25% of the 80% medium income. There will be no 3 bedrooms based on the report at Fairfield versus the Preserves which has 48 - 3 bedrooms units. This will definitely reduce the # of children that will impact the school system. I think the town is doing a good job negotiating with Fairfield Residential. Can the town do better maybe can they do worse definitely. Would I prefer something different there yes but do we have a choice no. What the town will do with that money should be put it towards the areas that will be most impacted such as schools, police and Fire.

[Unregistered]

I'm glad everyone is being smart about this one. There WILL be an apartment complex on the Woodworkers site, so it is wise for the town to work with Fairfield and get something in return. It would be foolish to fight this and try to have nothing built there, because something big will be built. Lets just make sure its good looking and keep it under control.

[Unregistered]

We should look at the successes of the Preserve Complex on Route 1 in South Walpole when judging 40Bs.

What are they?

The only thing I can say is that the police logs are full of reports about the Preserve Complex. I can only hope that the Walpole Woodworker site will not follow that example.

[Unregistered]

Is there anything we learned fron the Preserve that can be applied to the WW site?

Keep it constructive, no comments about added crime, lower test scores at Boyden, kids on bikes on RTE 1, etc.

[Unregistered]

Preserve is a 40B not 40R (no money to the town). Fairfield is proposing 40R for 198 units. I would like to see 201 units to get the extra $150,000. To me what is 3 more units???

Preserve is 50% of the units at 60% of the median income. That was a deal the state struck up with the preserves. Basically preserves received an extra 1 million dollars at no interest loan from the state we received zero. Traditional 40B's have 25% at 80% of the median income. What we have here is 50% of the building is basically at 60% of $80,000 or $48000 (or less) for a family of 4. Fairfield will be at 25% at 80% of the median income so far, assuming the town works with Fairfield.

Preserves has 48- 3 Bedrooms (Children) and Fairfield will have zero, less amount of children.

All units count towards affordable housing regardless if it is 25% or 50%. If we negotiated better instead of taking someone to court it would have been at 25%. Granted the # could have been more than 300 units but it would only have been 25% affordable well below the 150 units affordable units we have in one place.

Fairfield will have 48 affordable units versus 150 units at the preserves.

One point that needs to be made is no new developement, Toll bros etc is made to have 10% of the new housing affordable. That is a small # but everything helps and maybe we could have been closer to our goal. Plus someone owning something usually takes care of what they own better than renting.

[Unregistered]

Tonight, Wednesday, April 30th, There Is An Item On The Selectmen's Special Meeting Agenda Called Walpole Woodworkers Stone Street Property. It Must Mean School Street At The Corner Of Norton - The Old Hill Machine-ingersoll Rand Property. The Very Old High School Is Somewhere Within That Building.

[Unregistered]

I think a assisted living facility on school street is not a bad idea. Assisted living facilities hardly generate any traffic. Mostly the people going to work are the ones driving to these locations. I am assuming this will be for elderly, please correct me if I am wrong. One question I ask, can a assisted living facility count towards affordable housing if the develper goes thru masshousing and receives financing from elder choice? 20% of the units would need to be marked affordable? If so, this could put us, with the walpole woodworkers location at 10% of our goal. Is anyone looking into this?????

[Unregistered]

Why is the developer proposing 25% versus 20%? Does it have to be 25%? I have read and am confused on the # of percent of units it needs to be as well as the wage restriction. Meaning, some areas I have read 20% of 80% of the median income other areas I have read 25% of 50% of the median income.

[GUSTAV]

First of all, had you attended any meetings on the W.W. Site you would know that East St. is to be a 40R not 40B. 40R is smart growth, in a village like environment. The W.W. School St. site is not proposed as a 40B either. It is being proposed as an assisted care facility.
The only impact on the town would be ambulance/fire/hearse services. No impact on the schools and perhaps a slight increase in traffic flow which of course will need to be studied.
This will bring in some tax $$, but how much still needs to be seen.

[Unregistered]

Is there anything we learned fron the Preserve that can be applied to the WW site?

Keep it constructive, no comments about added crime, lower test scores at Boyden, kids on bikes on RTE 1, etc.

Why not mention crime as an issue? It's important to the community as a whole. Also, who stated anything about lower test scores at Boyden? As to kids on bikes on Rt 1, that is a concern unless they are just crossing from the Preserve to the side streets. I remember when the Jersey barriers went up because of a terrible accident that I saw where at least one person was killed. Rt 1 is not a road to be riding a bike on. Even regular bike riders avoid it.

[Unregistered]

This Town spends a lot of money and time fighting 40B's, their ghost's (W.W.) and all development. We need to be united as a Town and agree or disagree but this town needs to change, (Pro Development). The fact that towns like Westwood and other surrounding towns have reached their goal of 10% affordable and the State of Mass. voted to keep the law, it's time to start making some progress towards reaching this goal. The Town must have spent over 60thousand dollars fighting the Baker Street 40B, that is not going away...Once again, those who are so connected at all levels of town goverment and the ZBA are spending lots of Town money because their friends at the Walpole Country Club want the Town to fight their battle at our expense. Let's stop spending valuable Town money, approve these small developments and start reaching the State mandated goals. The plumbers and electricians in this Town could use the jobs...

[Unregistered]

This Town spends a lot of money and time fighting 40B's, their ghost's (W.W.) and all development. We need to be united as a Town and agree or disagree but this town needs to change, (Pro Development). The fact that towns like Westwood and other surrounding towns have reached their goal of 10% affordable and the State of Mass. voted to keep the law, it's time to start making some progress towards reaching this goal. The Town must have spent over 60thousand dollars fighting the Baker Street 40B, that is not going away...Once again, those who are so connected at all levels of town goverment and the ZBA are spending lots of Town money because their friends at the Walpole Country Club want the Town to fight their battle at our expense. Let's stop spending valuable Town money, approve these small developments and start reaching the State mandated goals. The plumbers and electricians in this Town could use the jobs...

I agree that the smaller and more manageable 40Bs are te way to get to our 10%. I am not certain that qualifies me as "pro-developement". I am happy to welcome clean decent business, but I would not ever suport the attrocities that the past few boards have brought to town. Power plants, trash, and Level 3 Biolabs are NOT reasonable developement. Westwood would not welcome them, and likely you would not welcome it to your neighborhood. I would not welcome them to mine, or anywhere else in town.

The real problem in Walpole is that to many people work with a singlemindeed agenda, and a solitary focus. It is either "all schools", "no taxes", or "any developemnt". This leads those individuals to make some pretty ugly choices for the areas of town that are not their own. We will never get anywhere, so long as our leaders are willing to write of areas of our town, that are not their own, to satisfy their pet projects. It continually sew dissention, and it keeps us from ever moving forward.

Let's see a town government that works with the town as a whole in mind, not with blinders and goggles focused only on their pet project. Election season brings promise... I hope it takes root!

[Unregistered]

Let's see a town government that works with the town as a whole in mind, not with blinders and goggles focused only on their pet project. Election season brings promise... I hope it takes root!

I think we have that with the current Board of Selectmen. All positive-minded intelligent individuals who are not one trick ponies, nor of the Nancy Reagan "Just Say No (to Everything)" school of leadership we have seen in Boards past. Let's see what Eric Kraus can do at the helm.

[Unregistered]

The fact that the Baker Street 40B is so small and the units are for purchase its a joke that we are spending Town money in legal fee's fighting the developer. Currently, the tax on that property is probably around 4 thousand per year. If he builds those units the whole development will probaly be taxed at $100,000.00, up from 4K. Residential construction brings good clean jobs to the Town in the form of tradesmen while the buildings are being built and then service people after they are built. So why is the Town spending our money fighting this development? They should just approve it and let the Walpole Country Club fight their own battle with the developer. The next override will be for the Town budget but they won't be telling us they spent 150K in legal bills, fighting and most likly losing that 40B battle.

If the Town develops smart, (small 40B's, assisted living facilities and commercial, etc.) all the problems with the Town and schools will start coming together. We need some huge money trying to build a fire and police station in the next few years...and they don't want to share the same building, HUH, so is the problem the Town, the singlemindedpeople or the Administrator or the Planner? (The planner should be tossed, cut our losses and move on) These people need to set the policy and draw the blueprint for growth and they should go get a design from another Town that put both the fire and police in the same complex and get it done...Similar to what the Town of Norwood did for their High School. Has anybody seen how nice that looks?? Of course we get the cheap remake at our High School and in 10 years the whole thing will be getting redone. Listen, the High School didn't come out good, the fire and police stations are a joke, and we are spending money on keeping out 8 duplex houses on Baker Street? Until those elected officials, who we the peolple trust to get the Town's business done in a manner that is consistant with the wishes of the people, we will never get any place. I think Jon Rockwood had it right, start firing those who head these important boards after two years. There is no reason why the "chairperson of any board, should be in that position for more than two years. Let's start with the officials and the "Chairpersons" of these boards. These people should not serve more than two years out of 10 years as a Chairperson. Too many special interests going on in this Town.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;13257]The fact that the Baker Street 40B is so small and the units are for purchase its a joke that we are spending Town money in legal fee's fighting the developer.

So why is the Town spending our money fighting this development? They should just approve it and let the Walpole Country Club fight their own battle with the developer.

/QUOTE]

The Town did approve it the project, but the developer doesn't like the conditions set forth in the approval. So actually the developer is causing the Town's increased legal fees by fighting the approval for his own project.
Now if the developer just decided to renovate the existing home or maybe raze it and build a new house the Town not have the increase in legal fees, but that was not the Town's choice.

So maybe you should look at this with an open mind and investigate all the facts before you go telling the Town what to do.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;13257]The fact that the Baker Street 40B is so small and the units are for purchase its a joke that we are spending Town money in legal fee's fighting the developer.

So why is the Town spending our money fighting this development? They should just approve it and let the Walpole Country Club fight their own battle with the developer.

/QUOTE]

The Town did approve it the project, but the developer doesn't like the conditions set forth in the approval. So actually the developer is causing the Town's increased legal fees by fighting the approval for his own project.
Now if the developer just decided to renovate the existing home or maybe raze it and build a new house the Town not have the increase in legal fees, but that was not the Town's choice.

So maybe you should look at this with an open mind and investigate all the facts before you go telling the Town what to do.

Perhaps you could elaborate on the conditions the town placed on the approval? Were they necessary? Were they overly restrictive/combative? This town is notoriously unfriendly to do business or construction in. Would be nice to know the whole story if it's available.

[Unregistered]

The fact that the Baker Street 40B is so small and the units are for purchase its a joke that we are spending Town money in legal fee's fighting the developer. Currently, the tax on that property is probably around 4 thousand per year. If he builds those units the whole development will probaly be taxed at $100,000.00, up from 4K. Residential construction brings good clean jobs to the Town in the form of tradesmen while the buildings are being built and then service people after they are built. So why is the Town spending our money fighting this development? They should just approve it and let the Walpole Country Club fight their own battle with the developer. The next override will be for the Town budget but they won't be telling us they spent 150K in legal bills, fighting and most likly losing that 40B battle.

If the Town develops smart, (small 40B's, assisted living facilities and commercial, etc.) all the problems with the Town and schools will start coming together. We need some huge money trying to build a fire and police station in the next few years...and they don't want to share the same building, HUH, so is the problem the Town, the singlemindedpeople or the Administrator or the Planner? (The planner should be tossed, cut our losses and move on) These people need to set the policy and draw the blueprint for growth and they should go get a design from another Town that put both the fire and police in the same complex and get it done...Similar to what the Town of Norwood did for their High School. Has anybody seen how nice that looks?? Of course we get the cheap remake at our High School and in 10 years the whole thing will be getting redone. Listen, the High School didn't come out good, the fire and police stations are a joke, and we are spending money on keeping out 8 duplex houses on Baker Street? Until those elected officials, who we the peolple trust to get the Town's business done in a manner that is consistant with the wishes of the people, we will never get any place. I think Jon Rockwood had it right, start firing those who head these important boards after two years. There is no reason why the "chairperson of any board, should be in that position for more than two years. Let's start with the officials and the "Chairpersons" of these boards. These people should not serve more than two years out of 10 years as a Chairperson. Too many special interests going on in this Town.

While I agree with some of what you say, you are either mis-informed or twisting the truth to suit your logic, when it comes to what took place with FinCom. I think what Jon Rockwood did was wrong. He erased any balance and diversity we had on the Fin Com, in favor of a heavily pro-school block. Look at the unprecidented move (against state recommendations) that the new board took by using free cash to fund the school operating budget! Perhaps you did not know that Jon's own wife works for the schools?

If you think people should move on after time on a board, Mark Gallivan should have been removed from FinCom. So should a number of other individuals who continue on the Fin Com. One Fin Com member owns property in Walpole, but actually lives in Norwood, yet he has been allowed to stay. Another rarely attends meetings, but has also been allowed to continue on.

I think it is hard to say that Mark Gallivan is not a "special interest". His wife has been on the school board longer than I can remember. Perhaps she should move along as well by your standards? The reality remains to be seen, but I do not think it is a stretch to say that Gallivan and Kraus (son in law of a former school suprtd) have a school "special interest" in mind.

Schools are an important part of our community. You just cannot destroy the community to achieve financial goals for the schools. Time will tell. Let's see where they go with this....

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;13257]/QUOTE]

The Town did approve it the project, but the developer doesn't like the conditions set forth in the approval. So actually the developer is causing the Town's increased legal fees by fighting the approval for his own project.
Now if the developer just decided to renovate the existing home or maybe raze it and build a new house the Town not have the increase in legal fees, but that was not the Town's choice.

So maybe you should look at this with an open mind and investigate all the facts before you go telling the Town what to do.

... you give away your own lack of an "open mind" when you state that "if the developer just decided to renovate the existing home or maybe raze it and build a new house...."

You only want a single family home. The 40B is somehow no where in your response.

[Unregistered]

That pretty much sums it up. The neighbors or the Town only want a single family house and no 40B but everything you read on the Town's website states that they want smaller 40B's.

I also beleive the previous post was not talking about the members on the boards. only that the "Chairman" should only serve no more than 2 years in that position out of 10. (I agree, this isn't Congress and these are not lifetime jobs)

[Unregistered]

So any would-be developer can purchase any plot of land in town and demand the town aquiesce to his get-rich-quick housing project or he will go 40B, and because it will temporarily provide union tradesman jobs, you believe the town should quickly approve these demands? Evidently you are either woefully ignorant about the facts surrounding the Baker Street project or incredibly naive. Please do your homework before commenting.

[Unregistered]

So any would-be developer can purchase any plot of land in town and demand the town aquiesce to his get-rich-quick housing project or he will go 40B, and because it will temporarily provide union tradesman jobs, you believe the town should quickly approve these demands? Evidently you are either woefully ignorant about the facts surrounding the Baker Street project or incredibly naive. Please do your homework before commenting.

Believe it or not, that actually IS the 40B law on the books. You may not like it, but it is exactly what the state had in mind,... that is UNTIL the town reaches the required 10%. After the town reaches 10%, the developer has to go through the same approval process as everyone else. So the goal, you see, is to reach the 10%. The better way to do that is with small developements.

Did the town spend money defending the 40B at the corner of South and Oak Streets? Just curious. If not, seems to make a strong case that officials are paying favorites.

[Unregistered]

The previous post sounds like it was from someone in the know. The issue is should the Town be spending money on fighting small developments that help get the Town to 10%. The law isn't going away and people can use those affordable homes. I'm not sure if you are fighting 40B or all construction, those jobs you mentioned wouldn't be union so perhaps you are just against all construction and all unions. The Law states that until the Town gets to 10% we are subject to what ever the developer brings forward. The Town just voted down buying the W.W. site for over 4 million dollars because it could lead to a 40B.

[Unregistered]

Now we wait. Mr. Maglio the CEO has stated that he will quickly place the property on the market. If he gets the best offers from apartment developers the voter will only have themselves to blame.

[Unregistered]

Of course, if an owner puts his property on the market someone will buy it and plan on putting something there, perhaps, a good clean business... The price for that property is going to sink like a rock and then whoever buys it they will "develop" it and pay taxes and permit fee's and start generating money for this town rather than almost spending over 4 million to shadow box 40B ghosts. Let's start getting to the 10% so we can start doing real business in this Town. (Police & Fire stations, Senior Housing, Schools and Fields)

[Unregistered]

I agree, I think its time that this Town starts making some positive strides and reaching the 10% goal. We have spent enough time and money on fighting every 40B proposal.

[Unregistered]

I agree, I think its time that this Town starts making some positive strides and reaching the 10% goal. We have spent enough time and money on fighting every 40B proposal.

I am a developer,please give your address and I will research your neighborhood for available property to buy for my next 40B project.It's nice to have a welcoming neighbor